Saturday, 1 November 2008

masquerading?

In a comment to my post on "no limits" emdie wrote:
"The so called dominants who leave their subs in psychological damage and just move on to the next victim, in my opinion are not real Dominant Master's. Some people out there are just tops masquerading as such to get what they want."

I agree with emdie's comment in principle - but how is a sub to recognise a true Dom? How long might it take to discover he is only masquerading? What damage might be done in the meantime?

18 comments:

bloodsweattears said...

I don't think it would take an expeierenced sub very long at all to realize that a Dom like that wasn't "real", but only playing the part for the kinky sex he can get out of it. If all he ever talks about is kinky sex and all the things he wants to do to her and never really takes the time to get to know her, what really makes her tick, then it should be obvious that he's masquerading as someone he's really not. I think a true Dom is approachable, open, honest and humble. I also think men like this only look for new subs because they are inexperienced and may not figure out soon enough that they are being used in a bad way. Alot of damage could be done to her mentally, emotionally and physically during this time and she may go along with it believing this is the way it's supposed to be.

Rose

Master Gaach said...

True dominance is inner strength, and is evinced by the natural leader. People look to the Dominant for care and protection.

One must have self-mastery before one can Master others. When combined with a sincere desire to help others, quiet strength, understanding, compassion and wisdom are the hallmarks of the true Dominant.

To care for others means to know them deeply, which takes time and effort. A sub may know if a Dom is "real" by the time and effort that he expends to "know" the sub...and how he treats the sub. Even during intense D/s-- even during (but especially after) humiliation scenes-- there must be an undercurrent of fundamental respect shown for the sub.

And, above all, the Dom must show concern for the sub's well-being, and ensure that s/he never comes to harm while under His protection.

Alice said...

What Master G said is very true. J spent hours upon hours, getting to know me very well, before we ever "played". He exhibited a leading nature, but never a demanding nature, always strong, but always compassionate. He made sure He explored all of my limits and desires in conversation first.

Had I felt pushed or rushed, in anyway, I would have never become involved with Him. I think the key is to invest enough time into getting to know someone, before engaging in BDSM with them. If they are not willing to wait until you are sure and comfortable, then keep on looking.

vanimp said...

If he's in a mad rush to get you in the bedroom and doesn't do the ground work don't go there. If he's focussed on the sex aspect only, don't go there.

One must have self-mastery before one can Master others. <<<< so damn true and if you look hard enough it becomes rather obvious rather quickly.

Nice post Pygar xxxx

SchiavaD'Amore said...

At the beginning, it is not so common for a Master to force His girls to speak at length and in detail to Him of the secret sides of their nature, explaining and elaborating on their life as well as their fantasies.
Because speaking with honesty is not so common.
For example, during my slavery, I’m working hard to understand how my Owner knows every hair, every sweet blemish of His slave girls.
I know this: In a way I am nothing to Him, for I am only a slave.
But in another way, I am very important to Him.
I am one of His women. He wants to know me completely, every inch of my body, every inch of my mind. Nothing less satisfies Him.
I am His property.
Paradoxically, He couldn’t use me in the authentic way without knowing me.
He has taught me along with it, providing effort to individualize a great care.
My deepest thoughts and desires, as well as my most trivial fancies and observations, are open to Him. He give me great attention because it is rewarding and delicious to do so, in a way.
But in another way the great deal of attention is a gift of Him.
Now, in a starting relationship everything is not so clear. It's a mystery. We think about others in terms of our selves and tensions build.
The real dialectic is a conscious force that is able to recognize each other: I recognize myself as mutually recognizing One another.
The problem is that I can always wrong. Everyone can wrong and it is a pernicious thing for own state of mind and physical incolumity.
Anyway… I think that true can only be won by risking one's whole life and, maybe, by holding nothing back.

valentina{Michael}

Anonymous said...

I agree with what everyone has to say so far. A true Dom will take the time and effort to know the submissive. They will back up what they say by their actions and show themselves to be open, honest and trustworthy. To me anyways, I'm not sure about other people but the true Dom is almost like a teacher, you learn about yourself and are encouraged to better yourself in all ways. To never settle for less than what you deserve.

It shouldn't take long to see if someone is real or not, but it's as Rose said, some of these doms will prey on the newer subs because they know there will be less questioning about their dominant skills. The damage done in that time can be emotional, physical and mental. I've talked to some subs where they didn't know they had a choice in anything but because they haven't been given proper guidance, keep doing the same thing over and over again. Which is going to Dominants who end up doing more harm than good.

It's not so much recognizing the true Dom but being aware that not everyone out there who call themselves a Master or a Dominant are exactly that.

~emdie

Pygar said...

Thank you Master Gaach for your comments here and on my no limits post. It is instructive to have the views of another dominant in these comments.

I agree with your pointers to a good Dom and how a sub might know he is real.

I will address this further in my next comment.

P

Pygar said...

Thank you very much Rose, Alice, Vanimp, Valentina and emdie for your thoughtful comments.

I agree with much of what each of you say. One thing that comes through from many of your comments is the amount of time and patience a Dom has in starting the relationship and there being no rush. I am sure this is a good pointer - and as with any relationship but even more so - it is important to take that time to build the relationship rather than to rush.

However I find that D/s relationships can become very intense very quickly. It is something about the nature of the D/s dynamic. And it is here where some Doms can misuse their power. There has been much talk of real Doms and I think some idealism in the nature of such Doms. I know there are many readers of this blog in deep, loving D/s relationships ... but there are Doms out there who do mislead and manipulate others. I know some of you will say these are not real Doms. But it is not just guys out for sex and pretending to be Doms. Some Doms just are shits.

(Excuse my French!)

However, I do think the advice here for subs - especially in taking time is good. I also like valentina's point about a Dom taking a lot of time to get to know his sub in great detail. That is good advice for Doms - but where there are those who are more cavalier the sub can be in a difficult situation.

As emdie says - subs sometimes may need guidance on what they can expect from a Dom. The power exchange that is at the heart of the relationship gives unscrupulous Doms the opportunity to cause hurt.

I've had another post saved for a while that gives some examples of this but wish to check it out with a friend before publishing it.

xPx

bettenoir said...

What emdie is describing is not a Dominant but an antisocial personality disorder... or what used to be called a psychopath. BDSM is the perfect place for them to lurk but they are out there in the vanilla world.

What do I look for in a Dominant that tells me he is a good person?

Empathy, a sense of justice/fairness, consideration of others, is humble but self confident, open and consistency in what they say. These are all prosocial traits and lastly I anyone who is too charming gets my hackles up.

But those would be traits I look for in a vanilla partner too (if I wanted one).

The problem is that these predators tend to be very charming and very smart, they play there prey expertly. It's very hard.

Sir J said...

A friend of mine use to say "you can't be one kind of sales person and another kind of person" he meant it in relation to honesty and his premise was a dishonest sales person would be dishonest in other aspects of their life. I think it plays here in BDSM as well. When looking at a potential Dom the sub must take a look at their whole life for clues and if he\she won't let you look then perhaps that tells you what you need to know.

Pygar said...

Thanks Bettenoir. I think you are right that it can sometimes be so hard to identify these men - they seem so charming. My next post addresses this in more detail.

Thank you too Sir J - you reflect my own views totally when you advise to look at the whole person rather than just look at them as a Dom.

P

secretlynaughty said...

I would like to thank you for these posts, as a woman considering becoming a sub I am finding these posts and the subsequent comments very helpful

Master Gaach said...

If you have children or dependents or other demands on your time, or other real-life activities or things that are important to you, then a prospective Dom's attitude toward those things should be an indication of how he will treat you as his sub.



Children are useful as clear indicators. A prospective Dom should unilaterally make it clear at the outset that He will never do anything-- no matter how slight-- that will negatively impact upon your children's well-being.



If he doesn't make this completely clear up-front, then have nothing to do with him, no matter how charming; for a real Master will understand and honor the importance of your children.

Pygar said...

I'm very pleased that you are finding the blog and its comments helpful seecretlynaughty.

I think the quality of this blog is down to the people who have left such thoughtful and helpful comments and I thank them all.

Pygar said...

I think you are right Master Gaach. This is a very good indicator.

Any stable woman would put her own children first. If a man tried to break that bond then he is clearly dangerous.

P

Anonymous said...

I've noticed that another common differential between "Doms" and "posers" is intelligence. Not just one kind, but a mix of book smarts and people skills. Their book smarts often show through in their choice of words, while their people skills show up in how they read you... they should be able to tell if you're comfortable going to the next level or not-- if a man/woman doesn't have that intelligence, they don't often make good Doms. There's danger in playing with people who don't know when to quit or, worse, simply aren't in control of their emotions.

Anonymous said...

Repent from all your sins, in Jesus' name! This is all very distorted and all of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

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