Wednesday, 27 June 2018

on being judgemental...

There was an interesting discussion on my last post 'being judgemental...'

I was prepared to receive some flack in the comments but it developed some interesting points. For instance Neriche had experience of women who had been abused in the past discovering a safe place in the BDSM world. Jz made it clear she felt it was fine to be speak ones mind about things one believes to be wrong and that was not the same as "being judgemental". So that gives me my justification!

One of the issues I was trying to address was that of lifestyle relationships in particular. I suppose I am worried about where the line lies between genuinely happy and caring BDSM relationships and those where the dynamic might be manipulated by a Dom and has an underlying abusive element. Abby had something to say about that and also Bleue though she also pointed out the abuse she has seen in play settings.

One of the things that prompted my post was having had long conversations with women who had come to recognise that their BDSM lifestyle relationships were in fact abusive and walked out. This is not a simple and easy action for a sub, both emotionally and physically. It can have a long term impact in many ways.

Dani was one such and has posted her response here. She is a strong and brave woman who has suffered a lot in many ways and who was in extreme danger at more than one time. I suppose I worry about those subs who may not be as strong, brave and determined as she was.

8 comments:

Princess said...

I'm a tinge behind on this conversation but I'd like to say that everyone processes this, as they do. Maybe some give the 'benefit of the doubt' more than they should, due to the nature of the D/s dynamic.

I think that a woman who is of the giving sort will give even more within such a relationship. Just as those who reject any sort of out of line behavior will reject what feels wrong i them. Those in the middle work on it, as it comes.

Personally, I'm only going to take so much--which really isn't a lot, I've learned. (But I'm not a sub--I just look good in the clothing.) It doesn't take much for my 'Danger Will Robinson' siren to go off but I am coming from a position of normalcy, so to speak. I didn't witness dismissive behavior, cursing, arguing and other things in my family of origin, so a man pushing me towards to areas is not going to get heart eyes from me.

Nothing wrong with making judgements on what one will and will not take. In fact, a little judgment might save one's heart from being broken.

Pygar said...

Thank you for your perspective Princess. I think it is a matter of having the recognition that something is just not right - and then having the strength to do something about it.

I like your remark on judgements - that "a little judgement might save one's heart from being broken."

And "... I'm not a sub--I just look good in the clothing." made me smile!

:)

Take care

P xx

Fondles said...

I wasnt sure if i had anything to add in the last post on this topic. But i will say that i have often wondered myself about that line between being pushed to explore one’s limits and being abused.

There are some things i WILL not stand for. And i have come to understand his tone and reactions/actions. We had a brush with going too far (my “dark wing dom” post) and i called him on it.

Most times he is aware of and keeps to those limits, and if he is pushing and testing there is a coaxing in his voice. But when i cannot take it i say so and we stop and talk about it.

He has also “tested” me from time to time to make sure that i’m not just being mindless about following his commands. The “testing” happens during play, and in conversation. And he has always encouraged me to speak my mind and stay true to what i accept as within limits, and discuss why some things are unacceptable (and why i SHOULD find them unacceptable).

I guess im rambling again, sorry. But i wanted to out this out here in case it might benefit anyone still reading and wondering if they have crossed the line into abuse. I dont proclaim that BIKSS is a perfect Dom, as Dominants come in a great many variety. But a good rule of thumb is that they encourage and continue meaningful communication. Always.

(I apologise for the long comment. )

Fondles said...

*put this out here

Neriche said...

“I suppose I am worried about where the line lies between genuinely happy and caring BDSM relationships and those where the dynamic might be manipulated by a Dom and has an underlying abusive element.”

Some of the submissives I've heard speak out are otherwise very strong women. Women who have no problem telling a man to take a hike. My mother is one such type, though she never overtly identified as a submissive. Her experiences and Dani's, and so many others, are hauntingly familiar. I've thought a lot about this as a newbie to BDSM, and it's one reason I haven't yet played or become paired up with a Dominant.

Many submissives in, or hoping to be in, a D/s relationship seem to want to give their whole self to a Dom; that is the overwhelming impression I gather from FetLife and other forums where both Doms and subs weigh in. The visual metaphor of this total abandon that comes to my mind is when a performer free-falls off a stage, eyes shut, into a crowd, trusting that they’ll be caught. Submission involves a beautiful level of trust that I have never experienced with a man, and when submissives (and moreso Doms) talk about it in terms of total abandon, total surrender of one's self, it's both alluring and alarming.

If/when I indulge in submission with a trusted and loving Dominant, how will I truly know it’s safe to do so? How long must I remain mindful, vigilant during and outside of play?

Fondles exampled what I think is a healthy D/s dynamic beautifully. But, if I may read between the lines, both she and her Dom expect her to remain mindful enough to speak up when it doesn’t feel right (“…But when i cannot take it i say so and we stop and talk about it.”).

Anyway, lots of thoughts and musing from this. It's a great post that gets right to the heart of the concept submission...and abuse that can creep in. Or perhaps I derailed it into that (sorry Pygar).

Pygar said...

Wow! Two very interesting replies. Thank you Fondles and Neriche.

Firstly though - No Fondles, your comment was not too long and in no need of apology, and again no Neriche you have not derailed the topic! In my mind you have each developed the topic in very interesting directions.

I think the key, Fondles, in your post is where you write, "... Dominants come in a great many variety. But a good rule of thumb is that they encourage and continue meaningful communication. Always." I think there is a key message there for submissives, especially any who may have concerns in their own relationship. So thank you very much for that.

Thank you too Neriche. You write very evocatively of what you are seeking as a submissive but...
How to find it?
How to keep safe?
Through your research and exploration you have gained many valuable insights to share. I believe you did sum it up well in your reading between the lines of Fondles post, "both she and her Dom expect her to remain mindful enough to speak up when it doesn't feel right."

Again - thank you both.

P xxxx

January Blackthorne said...

You are still Here! Haven't been online in ages.
Fondly,
J. ;)

Pygar said...

What a delightful surprise! So nice to hear from you.

Sadly time pressures make my postings somewhat irregular at times. After all this time I sometimes seek inspiration. If you have any ideas... ?

;)

Fondest regards in return and a big hug

P xxxx