Monday, 29 June 2009

age play

I know there are many subs who like to call their Masters "Daddy". I suppose part of it is the feeling of care and support that they get from this.

I am not being critical of such couples but it is not for me. I would feel very uncomfortable if a sub called me "Daddy" - though I suppose honoured as well that they were perhaps expressing a deep level of love and trust towards me.

Does it help to explain my difficulties with this if we put it the other way round. Would others not be discomforted if I were to call a sub "daughter"?

15 comments:

renea said...

My Master (Omega), will sometimes do silly things like buy me a toy at the zoo. LOL. I doubt either of us would be comfortable with me calling him "Daddy." That is not really his role. He is my Master and that seems more fitting.

I know several people that have the "Daddy" relationship and seem to love that idea. However, I don't think they really engage in "age play" I think it's more about feelings of protection they get from their Dom.

Lost Kitten said...

i use the term Daddy at times. but i do not enjoy age play. if you call someone "baby" its a term of endearment not meaning to mean they are acting like a baby or behaving like one. Its the same with the term "Daddy" for me. It doesn't have to do with age but more, and endearment and a term used sometimes when i feel like i need more tender parts of the lifestyle. Its a loving term.

complicated kitten said...

I personally have never gone in search of a Dom who wished to be a Daddy Dom, but at some point during our relationship they have referenced themselves as Daddy during play. I'm certain that it was not meant to reference being my father but more as a protector. I am guilty of saying at one point in time, "Hey Big Daddy!!" A term of endearment like Lost Kitten said...

May said...

I'm a female domme but my boy slave calls me "Daddy" and I call him "baby." It's part of our gender-warping inherit in our relationship, but it's also a very deeply loved title for me. When he calls me Daddy I know he's feeling love for me as the primary earner and protector. In the same way, he's my baby to love and protect.

I think that the term can evoke the feelings of that care and protection implied in the daddy role without implying incestuous relations. However, I also think that incestuous teasing is part of the reason many people like the Daddy term. I don't have a problem with that. Incest is the oldest form of kink in the world from what I can tell, and I'm not surprised it's still around.

cutesy pah said...

Daddy and I don't indulge in age play. And, until I met him, I wouldn't have considered calling a Dominant "Daddy." but, as I've said in my own post, "Why I Call Him Daddy," it's about the love, the support, the respect, and the boundaries that the term, "Daddy," carries. He asked that I call him "Daddy," and I tried it, to oblige him, thinking I would never like it. But, being his good girl, just like a proud father watches his daughter, works for me, and inspires me to please him far more than any other Dominant I've known.

Personally, age play doesn't work for me. I'm of the mindset that if it works for you, great, but just don't bring it into my bedroom.

YMMV. Keep what you like, and leave the rest.

Tristan said...

I wouldn't want to be called "Daddy" but only because it would feel disrespectful to her recently lost father. I keep his and my roles quite separate for her, even though I know she relishes the sense of protection she feels around me. She often makes comparisons.

I like that, too, but this is our particular case and I can certainly see the relevance of it in other relationships. It's quite endearing really, isn't it?

However, I don't think that calling a dom daddy is really age play. Age play to me is more the process of making the sub behave in the way of a child. Making the sub ask permission to leave the room, having them wear children's hair styles and clothing. Teaching them proper "child-like" behaviours.

It's a way of objectifying the person and we all do that in some way or other.

There may be some very beneficial results from a good age play relationship. Better to turn a consenting adult into a child than a trusting child into an adult.

To be honest, I have very little exposure to that sort of play and I'd love to hear from someone who has had some first hand experience in it. Do the doms that enjoy age play do it because they like children? I somehow doubt that.

Well done again, Pygar. You do seem to find the most stimulating topics.

Chloe said...

Honestly, I think the difficulties might be part of being in a culture bubble. Maybe?

For instance, it's commonplace to say Papi and Mami for sexual partners in Hispanic communities... Even just for friends. Heck, I often called the little girls I nannied for "mamacita" too, and I'm not even Hispanic!

And in those cases, it's not age play, it's not even BDSM related. It doesn't need thinking about or explaining. There is no discomfort, ever. It's not weird, because culture didn't teach anyone it's weird.

And culture has probably tried to teach you, me, and many others that it's weird to call a sexual partner Daddy. But that doesn't mean it IS weird. (As I'm sure most in the BDSM world are aware - society's hangups are not often founded in anything solid.)

Not all of our culture adheres either... Listen to songs on the radio, you'll hear "C'mere and let daddy show you.." on Top 40 stations, etc.

And a thought about the final paragraph of your post - I call Antonio Daddy sometimes, but it doesn't mean it's the same as if he were to call me "daughter." After all, I'm not calling him "father" and at least to me, those have more equivalent connotations. Daddy matches best in the loving/caring connotation with "little girl" or "baby" and those DO come out of his mouth.

I'm curious - do you call submissive women "little girl" or "baby" or "baby girl" ever? And if so, is it merely connotation that is different?

Thank you for this post. Thought-provoking, as so many of yours are.

~Chloe

Tristan said...

Chloe, I think you’re very close. I call my Dad, "Dad". It's not meant to be kinky. If I tell the pet she's a whore, it's not because I expect to pay for her services.

Your point may be valid if we say that, since all words can have context based meanings, there are times and places where calling someone "Daddy" is an appropriate, acceptable behaviour even if they are not your daddy.

In this case, I believe Pygar meant that the close association with the term "Daddy" to the archetype of progenitor, protector and teacher (in this specific case) was uncomfortable on some levels because of the cultural taboos regarding incest (which I think was your point, that in some cases it simply doesn’t).

It seems pretty clear from the comments above that it’s not about incest. The use of the term “Daddy” seems to be mostly semiotic. The people in this environment that use it do so, it seems from this small sample, to show respect and pleasure. From their “Daddy” they receive guidance, protection, love and discipline, much as a child gets from a typical father figure.

Your post is interesting because it brings up that idea of "Acceptable cultural norms". In this specific community, "Daddy" is not weird to many. It's been adopted and the meaning, this specific cultural meaning, has become acceptable to this specific cultural group, much as you said it was accepted by other cultures in a more vanilla context.

I'm rambling. The point is: semiotics. In Western-English-based cultures, having sex with your dad is not acceptable and any reference to it conjures up unseemly images of abuse of trust which may, in part, add to its appeal –in this commnity. In other cultures this may not be so. It's to all our advantages to understand that kinky behaviours are not the sole domain of Western-English-based cultures.

So here we now have two discussions. Has the term “Daddy” as used by this group, been changed to allow for a new meaning and in other cultures is there a similar need to reapply meaning to words in order to achieve the desired understanding?

“The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it’s open,” but when you wring it out the sub should call the dom whatever the hell the dom wants to be called.

goodgirl said...

Hello Kind Dom.

I must say that I understand that contradiction. I know that there are times when I have used the word "Daddy" when speaking with my Master. Most often I say it in cheekiness but there have been extremely intimate and vulnerable moments when I have whispered such a word to my Master and have felt comforted by it.

"Daddy" is not a word I ever used with my father, I called him many other names, but never that. I also grew up in a small town where many women referred to their husbands as "Big Daddy" (a sentiment which to this day makes me giggle) so the term of endearment was never related to my father but to a husband.

With that said though, the idea of being called "daughter" actually causes me to vomit just a little in my mouth. Interestingly though, one of my all time favourite endearments that Master calls me is "baby girl".

I use to struggle with using the word "daddy" and being called "baby girl" but I am not hurting anyone so, after many many years I am now okay with this predilection.

Thank you for sharing your views. It is always nice to read a males perspective.

~alexandria

selkie said...

this may be totally off centre, but I wondered when reading this if those submissives who seek and find satisafction in a man who provides the "daddy" role (and to be clear, I am well aware this is not age play per se) - I'm wondering if their relationships with their own fathers were lacking somehow? I say this not suggesting anything nor being disrespectful or critical - just curious.

cutesy pah said...

to selkie - you're not off center at all. Yes, I had absent neglectful parents, who didn't support me nor did they appreciate me. and personally, it's about having someone, for the first time in my life, who thinks I'm amazing, and is my biggest cheerleader. It just so happens that he is the first Dominant I've met who wants me to call him Daddy. So, yes, I relate this to the feeling I always wanted with my Dad when I was little.

hope that makes sense.
cutesypah

Pygar said...

Many thanks again to all of you for making this such an interesting discussion.

I agree that I was wrong in equating the use of the word "Daddy" to age play. I'll have another go at writing about "age play" next week perhaps!

Chloe asks me , "I'm curious - do you call submissive women "little girl" or "baby" or "baby girl" ever? And if so, is it merely connotation that is different?"

In answer I do often say, "good girl". So perhaps I am setting myself up in a "Daddy" role after all!!!!!

xPx

selkie said...

actually, Pygar, along those lines, I don't see being called "good girl" so much as a daddy/daughter role as an underlining of authority - i.e. "girl" while suggesting someone younger also carries the connotation when referred to as such that there is an authoritarian figure making the judgement call.

just my take!

and CP - thank you for your honesty! I was truly curious - as in musing on this I know that it is not a role play or to be semantic, voice play I've ever engaged in - and I know that while like anyone I had issues with my parents - ultimately I had a terrific, very involved, very caring da who was very much a part of my life.

When thinking about this it occurred to me that the role of daddy had already been very well filled. And I actually called my da, "da" or "daddy" right up until his death 7 years ago... i.e. he ALWAYS remained my daddy.

Gillette said...

When my D first said "good girl" to me I kinda flinched internally. Now I find it oddly yummy while also flinching. :)

Also reminds me of years ago, my first long term Dom always had me set up a baby bottle and diaper on the toy table. I thought this quite odd.

One day he finally made me put on the diaper and told me to pee in it. I did it, but like our other pee play it was just what he wanted to do, absolutely no turn-on for me. Also no shame...just an "um, OK...this is sure different."

Finally he informed me that the pee play and diaper were supposed to be humiliation play. I forgot to be humiliated.

I wrote in my diary that I was happy to learn that it was that and not that he was a closet pedophile. He, of course, read it. Luckily he thought it was funny.;)

Pygar said...

"Good girls," Selkie and Gilette!

I think I have come to use that term as it seems to combine an emphasis on submission with a strong element of praise.

Though Gillette I have never demanded anyone wear diapers for me. Not my thing at all!

xPx