Wednesday, 9 March 2011

domination, pain and sadism

This is a follow up post to my previous post on submission, pain and masochism and its follow up pain.

My thoughts started with a combination of each but felt it might be better to try to raise issues from each side of the Dom/sub and sadist/masochist divide separately.

Dominance does not imply violence. In my day to day life I hate violence. I could not countenance hitting another person.

Unless.

Unless ...

... it was part of a consensual BDSM relationship.

How about if it were part of a consensual D/s relationship? Perhaps.

Perhaps?

Well ... it could be part of administering control and establishing dominance. It clearly would be with consent - but not necessarily with desire though I would treat it differently in each case.

The acceptance of pain can be a way that a sub can express her submission and a Dom can emphasise the element of control. However a Dom needs to take care here. The pain should not be in itself the controlling characteristic. A Dom should not control through the threat or administration of pain. In such cases it may cease to be Domination and become abuse.

No - it is rather through the acceptance of pain that within a trusting D/s relationship a sub may express the depth of her submission. This might seem like "topping from the bottom" but I believe it has to be the sub's acceptance of pain rather than the Dom's administration of pain that is the key in a non-masochistic relationship.

My key enjoyment is the combination and contrast of pleasure and pain. The exploration of the sensuality of sensation - whether pleasure or pain. The discovery of sensuous and sexual desire though exploration of sensation that could be either or both at the same time. As a switch friend once said to me, "pain is merely extreme sensation and not necessarily to be avoided - and sometimes even to be embraced."

But what if she is merely accommodating my own sadism? Am I a sadist if I enjoy the administration of pain? Does that matter? Does that make me cruel? Does that matter?

I enjoy administering pain as long as it is within a trusting D/s setting - where I know that on some level my sub partner is getting as much from it as me. Indeed I enjoy it all the more if I know that she is enjoying it too. I love masochists!

If she wasn't - I'm not sure I could do it.

But ...

I was interested in something Jz wrote on a recent post. She quoted a conversation with a Dom friend when he said ...

"That is really how I am, You must whimper because you are really whimpering, so that it is completely for my pleasure, and knowing that is what has to give you pleasure."

He wants her to whimper. To really whimper. Only for his pleasure. There is real sadism there. But he wants her to gain her own pleasure from knowing that it is giving him pleasure. In the end it will only work if she has pleasure too.

Part of me would like to search for that woman who will willingly whimper for me through knowing that it gives me pleasure. But part of me wants more than that - I want her to gain pleasure from the physical aspect too. I worry that the psychological pleasure of knowing she has pleased me could be so easily manipulated by some that it could come close to abuse.

I want most of all the sensuality of the connection of pleasure and pain.

9 comments:

Jz said...

I can understand and appreciate your dilemma but there was one thing that did strike me ...

If your criteria is that "on some level [your] sub partner is getting as much from it as [you]", then maybe you don't need to worry exactly which part it is that is directly causing her enjoyment?
It seems to me that if she's willingly whimpering for you, knowing it gives you pleasure, then it's entirely possible that IS her pleasure. A very real, intense pleasure.

It's fair to want her enjoyment -- I'm not sure it's quite so fair to want to insist on evaluating her enjoyment according to your standards.
It's entirely possible that she could be out there, flying higher than she's ever been before. Are you going to say, "This doesn't count as enjoyment, because you arrived at this cloud via a hang glider, rather than a plane"?

She doesn't care.
I'm not sure you need to, either, as long as you see she's flying.

(Just one woman's opinion...)

NewToThisLife07 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NewToThisLife07 said...

hmmmm....since i am a masochist I think I'm in a bit of a win-win situation, well now i am -in the beginning not so much. When Master and i first met I had no clue that i was a masochist, painslut even, and i took the pain -because He asked it of me. In the beginning i found no real pleasure in it apart from being proud that i could endure it for Him. Yes, endure -because that is really how it was. I managed the pain, not at all really liking it. But I kept pushing the boundaries (because i'm stubborn like a mule!)and today i crave it, i love it. So i'm glad i did it. Now i find enjoyment out of knowing that it satisfies and pleases Him and i also get the physical enjoyment out of it for myself. So for me a win-win :D
And yes, I think you are a sadist if you enjoy the administering of pain for both of your's pleasure, in a way that is more than the reaffirmation of your respective roles. Is that bad? Certainly not. Not as long as the sub gets enjoyment out of it too. And as Jz says; does it really matter why she enjoys it? As long as she does, I don't see it as a problem. Although personally i don't think you can take the pain to the same level as you can with a masochist/pain slut.
Key word being enjoyment . Nothing that is good and enjoyable for both parties, for whatever reason they enjoy it, can in my eyes be wrong or bad.
Go find your masochist! ;)

Pygar said...

Thank you Jz and NewToThisLife07 for your really interesting and thoughtful responses. They have got me thinking hard also.

What I hadn't really got my head round was that as Jz write - whether the pleasure is from masochism or from pleasing her partner - it is still pleasure. Part of me felt that if the pleasure was just in pleasing her Dom then it didn't count in the same way. That it wasn't as pleasing I suppose!

So I'm going to have to work at this - to stop feeling guilty that it is somehow not "real" pleasure.

Thank you Jz - very much.

Thank you too NewToThisLife07 for emphasising the same (so it must be true!) but also describing your journey in how it turned into masochistic pleasure. I appreciate all your words.

P xxxx

Velvet said...

The last words in your post are what appeal to me the most... 'the sensuality of the connection of pleasure and pain'. For me that hits the nail on the head. I think that 'sensual' is the word that M uses most often to describe me...discounting less savoury terms that I will not type here ;-)...
The whole pleasure/ pain thing is just so incredibly erotic. In our relationship there is no violence. There is control, unconditional submission, deep trust and an incredible connection.
Velvet <3

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Pygar said...

Yes Velvet the sensuality of pleasure/pain can be so very erotic. You describe your relationship very beautifully. Thank you for your contribution.

P xx

Alice said...

I'm going to have to emphatically agree with JZ on this one. However, if I am going to take pain (or humiliation) for the sole pleasure of Chess and also get pleasure from simply knowing that he is getting pleasure from it, then I REALLY need to know that he's enjoying it. But if I do know that then I can handle alot more, and my heart swells with happiness knowing that he's really enjoying himself and I am participating in that.

Alpha said...

Yes, it sounds like you are a sadist. There is nothing wrong with that, in and of itself. It is always how we express who we are/what we are that counts.

Knowledge is power...the more you truly know yourself the more power you have. After all unchecked sadistic tendency's are often turned inward.

I feel the first and foremost reason to strike someone is simple...defense. This rings true on all levels. That is one of the foremost things my sub receives from me...protection. So help the person that would try to do her harm. In that she takes great pleasure and reassurance.

Would I enjoy hurting such an offender? Yes, and that might very well save their life or at very least limb.

My sub is my possession but also my queen. Pain is sometimes needed on her part. There are a multitude of reasons. It would be wrong of me not to get gratification out of administering punishment. It is the worship of the queen that sets the limitation. Bend but never break.

But there are different levels of punishment. And pain is the most superficial of all. The gateway drug. On the other end is the worst punishment.....Getting "kicked out of the bubble" is true punishment. And one any good sub will go to great lengths to avoid.

One of the most beautiful and rewarding aspects of a D/s relationship is the symbiosis. The GIVE and the take. The yin and the yang.