Monday, 2 May 2011

Domination, service and submission

I wrote some time ago about active and passive submission. I explained there how I prefer a sub to actively seek out ways of ensuring my pleasure rather than waiting passively to be used or commanded.

I was reminded of this recently by a post on a message board. The writer who was a Dom said that he sometimes felt submissive if he was passive while his sub was actively pleasing him. I think if a Dom is confident in his dominance then there should be no reason for him to feel submissive. Surely it is the role of a sub to serve and that is what she was doing. However I did get part of his point.

I can remember some years ago receiving a relaxing massage from a platonic friend. It was delightful but I somehow felt almost guilty lying there placidly and receiving pleasure when I felt I should be returning it in some way.

In a sense being serviced by a sub, allowing her to give pleasure, is giving up control and giving the control over to the sub. It is she who is in control of the pleasure giving. Isn't control a key part of the D/s dynamic? Should it not be the Dom who remains in control?

I see no problem with allowing my sub to take control of pleasuring me. However I wonder if other Doms feel it is not appropriate to give up control in this way and whether any subs feel uncomfortable about taking such control?

20 comments:

oatmeal girl said...

The sadist has trained me very precisely in how to give him pleasure. It has been - and continues to be - a very slow and methodical process: how to service his cock with my mouth, how to service his cock with my hand, how - and when - to do other things that give him pleasure. Sometimes he gives direction in the course of my service, but his preference is for me to read his responses and know when to go from this to that to the other move.

He is ALWAYS in control.

Neo Dom Tom said...

I allow my lizard to pleasure me at her will for the most part, especially when it comes to cock sucking. She is quite good at it. I do sometimes tell her to suck me deep or lick my balls, for example, but often will simply allow her to work her magic. On the other hand, she often ends up tied up so she can't really take control of anything at that point. So I think a little of both, really. for the most part I set the agenda and set the pace. when we are making out, for example, if I want to increase the intensity, I go first and she will always follow. I will start to kiss her more aggressive, or bite gently on her lips, and she will follow by ramping up, biting me gently on my neck or licking at my ear. Since she has very good instincts that way, I do not direct the details.

NewToThisLife07 said...

See...I find this a bit confusing. (As you know) I'm not very passive to begin with, so for me it is natural that I would give pleasure without the need to receive back -how can that make a Dom passive/submissive?? He's asking for pleasure and he receives it -because it is his wish; is that submissive in _any_ way? In my mind that is pretty much the same whether you get grabbed by the hair and pushed down to the floor being told to service, as if he is laying in bed -he's getting the service he's asking for!

Another thing I've noticed comes up a lot too is whether it is "appropriate/ Dom-like" to go down on one's submissive -for me it is the same thing here; if it's what the Dom wants to do then he's simply using his submissive for the pleasure he is seeking is he not? Yes, she will enjoy it immensely too, but same is the case if a maso gets a spanking for pleasure,is it not?

So to be honest, to me it all sounds like insecurity -a Dom that gives and takes the pleasures he wants is Very Much A Dom to me.

Kitty said...

I like what NewToThisLife07 said. My husband is so, so Dominant and he LOVES to give me pleasure, to make me lose control and to have as many orgasms as I can.
He tells me exactly what he wants and how to position myself for HIS pleasure.

And when he tells me how to suck his cock and how deep to go and whether to lick or suck, etc. then he still is definitely leading. He uses me for his pleasure, but I truly LOVE to give him a blowjob. It reinforces my submissive feelings for him.

Pygar said...

What fascinating and personal responses. Thank you all.

Oatmeal's sadist is always in control. But she seeks to please him - reading his responses so also being active.

Neo Dom Tom enjoys being pleasured and gives guidance but does not direct the details.

NewToThisLife07 seems to just want to give pleasure! I think she may be a sub after my own heart. I may come back to the question she asks about "going down" if I have not already written about it!

Kitty loves to be directed but also loves to give pleasure.

In the end - as always - there is no right and wrong. Just as long as we are all having fun!

Thank you for the contributions so far. I look forward to more ...

- P xx

NewToThisLife07 said...

Not just P...not only ;)

Pygar said...

I stand corrected NewToThisLife07!

:)

P xx

NewToThisLife07 said...

;)
*tihi*

nilla said...

i used to wonder about this.

He loves to give me tons of orgasms. I am hugely multi-orgasmic...and He takes me up and over that hill dozens upon dozens of times.

He would finger fuck me to a limp rag, let me rest 5 minutes, then go down on me.

Then He'd fuck me, finger fuck me...however he chose, he would penetrate until i was a mess...

and i felt guilty. The pleasure was excruciating..and addicting.

i finally *asked* Him.

How can YOU get pleasure out of making me cum like the slut i am?

He laughed.

He makes his own rules. And He loves to control.

Fully control.

Push me past the point, until i'm begging, moaning, telling Him i can't...can't cum again...done, drained, sore, swollen...

And He pushes past those, pooh-poohs me...and makes me cum...again.

For Him? It's all, totally, about the power of controlling me, my body, my responses.

As He says....this pleases Him...and that's all that matters...(even though we both know we're both being 'pleasured'!!)
*smiles*

nilla

Pygar said...

Oh nilla - I am so jealous of your Master! To me there is something very powerful over having control of a woman's orgasms.

This fits in well with NewToThisLife07's comment above about whether it is appropriate for a Dom to "go down" on a sub.

It is for me as I love that control and power over a woman's orgasms - especially one who like you is so orgasmic!

Though in the context of this question you are right that it really does beg the question of when one is pleasuring the other then who has the power or control?

Thank you so much for the comment.

- P xx

Southern Sir said...

My girl is very multi-orgasmic and I love pushing her over that edge again and again.

Even she is amazed at how easily I can do. It has gotten to a point that I can look at her a certain way and it will start bringing her to that point.

One thing I have done with her is having her edge herself, bringing herself to the point of orgasm and then stopping.

Having that kind of control over her orgasm's is powerful. Yet I will freely admit I find great pleasure in her pleasure.

There are times she does give me pleasure and she is extremely good at it. As she puts it she wants to give back to me what I give her.

Yes I do find in and of itself powerful and in a way still being in control as she is serving me.

vanillamom said...

nice to read S.Sirs comment...a peek into the otherworld, as it were (laugh)!!

and i guess that if He controls the orgasm(s)...i'm still the submissive one -taking what He gives me - and He is working from the Top--doing whatever He desires..

And you're very welcome, Pygar. Always thought provoking posts!

nilla

oatmeal girl said...

What a great discussion!

Pygar said, in response to my comment: "Oatmeal's sadist is always in control. But she seeks to please him - reading his responses so also being active."

I don't see anything contradictory in being submissive and being active. It is the service and especially the mindset which is important. Whatever a submissive does should be done with a mind towards the dom(me)'s pleasure. An AWARENESS that you are doing it for the dom's pleasure.

On the other hand, the point about wondering who is in control is a good one. A number of months ago, the sadist gave me a wonderful violin concerto to listen to, with instructions to pay special attention to the interplay between the violin and the orchestra. At times, it seemed like one of those trick pictures where you wonder which is the figure and which the ground - is it a vase or two faces? Here the question was who was driving and who was reacting? Who was tormenting and who was screaming?

D/s is an intimate dance. The dom may lead, but the sub isn't being dragged around the floor.

As for orgasms, my Master has long received great pleasure from my orgasms, whether he hears them in a voice mail, reads my reports, induces them himself, or watches me masturbate before him. Again, the important things is my constant awareness that it is for HIS pleasure. It does make a big difference in my experience of cumming and the pleasure on the way. And watching me, he can tell true purpose.

Starfish said...

My husband has discovered the concept of “control” only in the past year or so, and it was a challenge for him to become comfortable with it as we nurture our D/s relationship. Neither of us wants him to assume complete control of me or our marriage, and I would never want to be that type of submissive. My realization and acceptance of my submission came about *because of* my tendency to actively seek ways to surprise and please my husband, both in and out of the bedroom. For me to ask him for (or expect) more “control” over me would take that “active” element from our relationship; disappointing him and devastating me.

He does take (& enjoy) control in the bedroom, though. He encourages me to “actively” pleasure him, but he is always willing to guide and direct me with his hands and voice because I have asked him to do so in order that I might please him as he likes/wants.


When it comes to my orgasms, he is in complete control. He carefully crafts ways to drive me to the edge as many times as he likes before either allowing or denying my release. I honestly never thought he would enjoy that or become so good at it, but it is now his very favorite part of our bedroom time. As for me, it’s delightful to think about but agonizingly frustrating (and delicious) when it happens!! (Not complaining, mind; I asked for this life and am deliriously happy with it.)

So for us, it’s a balance. Neither of us would be happy if I was completely passive, but I had to become somewhat passive in order to work toward the submission I feel most comfortable with. I think I am there, but there is always room to grow. :)

Pygar said...

Thank you Southern Sir (always good to have the Dom's perspective!), nilla, oatmealgirl and Starfish.

I agree with oatmealgirl - it really is a great discussion. Thank you all for making it so.

P xx

subbrooke said...

i just typed out a long comment and it disappeared. Ugh! So here's the short version.

i don't feel comfortable taking it upon myself to decide how to please my Master. i'm not talking about sucking His cock or pleasing Him physically. That takes on a life of it's own after i've been given the order or permission to do so. But i'd never, ever suck His cock just because i wanted to (cause if i did that's all i'd ever do!!).

i will do things like pick up after Him, refresh His drink, get the remote for Him or fix His plate on my own. But most other things i feel like i'm topping if i do them without an order.

Great discussion. i love posts that make me think.

NewToThisLife07 said...

something subbrooke wrote pushed a button for me; "But most other things i feel like i'm topping if i do them without an order.
"

To me that is not topping from the bottom it is being proactive . Isn't topping from the bottom defined as 'trying to take the decision making away from him'? Like trying to tell him what to do? Of course when it comes to sexual favours it might not be such a good idea to just jump on him =P But I think that for example kneeling in front of him asking (for example) "Master may I service/pleasure you orally (or whatever it is that you want to do)?" I don't find that to be topping from the bottom -I see that as offering service (even if it is because I feel like it, because it is still service right? Nothing that says I'm not allowed to derive pleasure from it is there? Unless you have that as a rule of course -however that would be possible I do not know though!)Same goes for asking for something you want for yourself, i e if you want a spanking I don't see anything wrong in asking for one; respectfully (as above for example) -it is still his choice if he will or not, therefore not topping. In my book.
Maybe there's a Dom in here that would like to admonish me for this, but that is my take on it =P

Southern Sir said...

subbrooke said: i don't feel comfortable taking it upon myself to decide how to please my Master.

I have to agree with NewToThisLife07 that serving your Master is not topping from the bottom.

If you have truly taken the time to know your Master inside and out, his likes, dislikes, etc. and you do these things, that is then serving your Master and his needs, wishes, and desires.

Topping from the bottom is more along the lines of refusing to do what your Master tells you to do. Or it could take the form of telling Him what and how to do a particular scene you are in.

Pygar said...

Thanks for keeping this really interesting discussion going. Sorry for not getting involved now - just life getting in the way and I'm going to be away for a few days.

I promise I'll try to join in when I return - and add a new post!

P xx

Pygar said...

Thanks brooke - I'm pleased if it made you think but sad you lost the first draft - I know how annoying that is.

I can understand how you are worried about taking the lead. I think this whole thread is about exactly that - as to when taking a lead stops being service. It must be so hard to draw the line but I think I'm with NewToThisLive07 and Southern Sir. At least I know I enjoy a sub taking the initiative in wanting to please me.

Good luck.

P xx