Thursday, 5 May 2011

leading and being led

This is related to my previous post about who is in control and whether if is okay for a sub to sometimes take the lead and even control in order to give pleasure to her Dom. In this case though it is whether it is okay for a sub to take the lead in order to improve - or even create the necessary dynamic to make the relationship work. The idea came from little one in a comment on Uncle Agony. There was an interesting discussion about whether a sub should perhaps take the lead in emphasising her submission in the hope that it might awaken her husbands dominant side. little one felt this might create a dilemma when ultimately she wanted to be led rather than to lead.

(You can read the full discussion here.)

What do readers think? Is it sometimes good for a sub to take the lead or ultimately might that result in an unfulfilling relationship?

15 comments:

K said...

I think another way to do it, and you may have already discussed this, so I apologize if so.. is to express and describe the need, but from a submissive space. Yeah, I guess there's an argument to be made that this is somehow leading..But I don't think this is true. Asking someone to lead, is not leading. It is asking them to. And, describing how to or what her needs are, that isn't leading either, just good old fashioned healthy communication..

In a nutshell, I think it can be done without complicating the D/s dynamic, rather enhancing it. Isn't openness and honesty the key anyway..

Interesting question as usual:)

K

Pygar said...

Thank you K - I think you make some very good points. Part of the problem in the earlier discussion though was not in complicating the dynamic - but actually in getting it started.

However as you say honesty is the key.

- P xx

K said...

Oh ok..yeah I think communicating and showing him what she would like is different than leading. Or at least not a bad thing. If he is receptive, she won't be leading for long;)

K

Pygar said...

That's right K. Anne Mouse certainly didn't find she was leading for long here!

- P xx

K said...

That's awesome. :)

Neo Dom Tom said...

Great question. I wonder, though, in reality whether this is really that much of an issue. If the Dom's aim is to please only himself, then he won't make her happy and eventually the relationship will break up. If the Dom has her best interest in heart, she will tell him in many small ways what she likes and doesn't like.

In the case where there is no agreement, though, there should be no restriction in approaching your potential Dom and telling him you would like to try something out. Once the rules have been laid down, then you need to follow them or end the experiment, but to suggest to someone you might enjoy being dominated by them does not seem to me out of line.

littleOne said...

Now I'm really confused!! Thank you for the link Pygar x

I think what I was thinking is that even after all the communication, the drip drip drip approach, the road remains fraught with dissatisfaction. This is the time that having given all the clues and hints and even having utilised the sledge hammer (the flogger and cuffs on his pillow with a note saying Dominate me or else!), my girl just wants to be led. Anything less is just frustrating.

L

Southern Sir said...

Somewhere along the line one or the other has to voice their desire of what they want. That in and of itself to me at least is not leading.

If one never voices their opinion of what they want it would then be very difficult to move forward. Therefore how then would one know if their spouse/partner/significant other wants them in that role.
I don't see how that could be seen as unfulfilling as then comes the period of discovery. Where each begins to define their roles, finding out about their likes, dislikes; What are their limits, etc. Those are all things that need to be openly discussed. If not it is doomed to fail.

A discussion I had with my girl surrounding her limits W/we got a a point where she made a very good point. she said that the list of her limits is not something that is set in stone and it is something that should be looked at and revised maybe once a year.
Which when one thinks about it makes perfect sense, over time things do change.

One purpose of this lifestyle is to push boundaries, what may have not been thinkable at some time in the past may now be a possibility to explore.In order for that to happen there has to be two way communication.

This is especially important in the beginning. Neo Tom said it very well, once the ground rules have been laid out then it is time to pick up the leash and one follows and the other leads.

Pygar said...

:)

Thanks for the lovely discussion. Please keep it up - I'm going to be away for a few days then I'll join in - and and a new post!

P xx

Pygar said...

Thanks again K, NeoDomTom, littleOne and Southern Sir for your interesting perspectives. I'm not sure we have got to the bottom of it yet so perhaps I may revisit this later. In the meantime I've posted a different perspective about control.

P xx

Ximena said...

How will I know if s/he doesn't tell me?

If they don't demand, but instead share what their desires and expectations are, I would respect their honesty and take what they've said into serious consideration.

I may not do things exactly as they've described to me, but that's ultimately my prerogative as a Domme.

Pygar said...

I agree with you S that it is important for a sub to share desires and expectations with their Dom/me. I believe (as you also) seem to suggest that part of the dynamic is for the Dom/me to want to fulfil their sub's needs as much as their own.

I suppose the difference in this case though is that the sub is trying to lead their partner into becoming a Dom.

Thanks for your interesting contribution.

- P

Pygar said...

Blogger seems to have lost some recent comments while it has been down. I am attaching a couple I have found below:

S has left a new comment on your post "leading and being led":

How will I know if s/he doesn't tell me?

If they don't demand, but instead share what their desires and expectations are, I would respect their honesty and take what they've said into serious consideration.

I may not do things exactly as they've described to me, but that's ultimately my prerogative as a Domme.

Pygar has left a new comment on your post "leading and being led":

I agree with you S that it is important for a sub to share desires and expectations with their Dom/me. I believe (as you also) seem to suggest that part of the dynamic is for the Dom/me to want to fulfil their sub's needs as much as their own.

I suppose the difference in this case though is that the sub is trying to lead their partner into becoming a Dom.

Thanks for your interesting contribution.

- P

mijena said...

Communication is the key whether you are just starting out or if you have been in the lifestyle for a long time. I know in my relationship if there is a topic I would like to discuss I ask Sir's permission to ask a question/make a statement, observation, etc. I then wait for permission to be granted. Once that is done I am free to express myself. He is still in control, but he truly listens to what I have to say.

My relationship with Sir is different then most I think only because we are not able to see each other as frequently as we would like. We rely on all forms of communication to talk and make desires known. One of the things Sir has instructed me to do is keep a journal which he reads. When He first told me to do this he explained this was my place to write whatever was on my mind. There would be no holding back. It is through there that he has discovered several of my desires. Once again he took the lead and still continues to as He digests the information from there.

So I think there are ways to voice your desires without changing the dynamics of the relationship, but communication is the key.

Southern Sir said...

mijena said...

Communication is the key whether you are just starting out or if you have been in the lifestyle for a long time.


It is not just the basis of there being communication, but it is the quality of the communication. Anyone can talk about the weather, what is happening in politics, and what their latest sports team is doing.

Not everyone is able to talk about their feelings, their desires, or if something bothers them. These things tend to be swept under the rug and hidden from the light of day. We have been taught from a very young age it is wrong to discuss these things, so even when one does try to talk about them it becomes hard.

Now being able to relay those feelings and desires in a constructive manner; there comes the finesse.

Once those feelings have been laid out on the table so to speak, then it is in the Dom's hands to take up the reins and lead their sub to the goal that has been set.

Even once that goal is obtained it is not the end of the journey, but is merely the beginning of another.