This is a follow up to my previous post on 'limits'. That post stirred a very interesting discussion. If you have not read it please do take time to have a look.
There was an implication from lil, if I interpret her correctly, that if we take out of the equation things that are just sick or would cause harm then the limits are held by the dominant rather than the submissive.
I wonder how many subs feel enough trust in their Doms to accept no limits. To trust in their Dom completely and submit to ANYTHING for them.
And how many Doms would be happy to accept the responsibility?
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No, I am not a health expert or a scientific expert. So I will not try to
offer you any of my own advice. Instead I am going to shamelessly pinch
from Fetl...
4 years ago
14 comments:
I wouldn't. I mean it sounds nice and all but honestly I could never have that much faith in anyone because the Dom is a human after all. Also I'm a human and there are things I don't want to do and I'm not going to do them no matter what and those are my hard limits. That reminds me I received a letter from a dom who was answering an ad that I posted and he told me that I wasn't a real sub because I had limits. I just laughed thinking he isn't a real dom to even say such a thing.
I completley understand where lil is coming from and re-reading from the original post i couldnt agree with her more.
I do think everyone has limits, so i dont subscribe to the idea of the 'no-limit' sub, however i do believe the dom can hold the limits and by proxy they are also the subs.
In the context of being sane and sensible then yes i would do anything for my Master because i trust him to be sane and sensible..he wouldnt want to do anything that would damage me mentally as well as physically.
For me personally handing over my limits to my Master was the right thing for me, for us..i dont want to hold anything back from him.
Does it mean he went straight ahead and went through what i had as limits? no of course not, over the years we have slowly worked through some.....and i have realised that for me having limits was actually just limiting myself from enjoying experiences that i could have denied myself.
Needles were a hard limit for me before i handed them over for him to control....now i love them!
As tori said.. "over the years.." that is the most important part. I've known Sir for three years.. and my "limits" have evolved as we have moved along.
Early on he showed me pictures of things that I never thought I'd be able to stand.. much less enjoy!
Yet, here I am, saying yes please, thank you very much.
No Limits.. not me or him. but changing and pushing them.. yes.
Knowing another person takes time .. I've often thought Sir could have gone faster then and even today but he likes to take his own sweet time.
I also know his limits for me..he won't ever physically or emotionally damage me.. and he knows me well enough to know those limits.
I trust him to hold the limits for our relationship.
Great ongoing discussion!
I'm kind of coming from the same viewpoint as Desireous, because i am currently not owned, and to start a new relationship with absolutely no limits would be ludicrous!
but by the same token, "over the years" is the key point that stands out in nbs & tori's comments....
who know how my views might take a complete turnaround when under the guidance & control of a caring Dom?
...a very interesting post and good food for thought- thanx for sharing! :)
Thank you very much Desireous, tori, nbs and LM.
Desirous and tori - when I first read your comments you seemed to be saying exactly opposite things but I found myself agreeing completely with each of you!
Perhaps it all comes down to trust and the caring nature of the Dom. nbs - you seem to have moved on to things you never dreamed you would be doing. However as you say, it takes time to develop such trust.
However as LM says, "to start a new relationship with absolutely no limits would be ludicrous!" Desireous implies exactly the same when she quotes the letter from a "Dom" accusing her of not being a real sub because she has limits. (I hope you told him where to go Desireous!!!)
However in time with a caring D/s relationship, perhaps the limits are so understood that they no longer need to be explicit. The trust becomes such that the Dom can occasionally stretch the 'limits' to see what happens, developing much different boundaries as time goes on, each comfortable that care and support will always be available. In appearance there are no limits but underneath ... ?
Have a I managed to bridge the gap or is there a real distance between these differing points of view?
P xx
yes definately- i think limits are essential in a new relationship, but i ca also see how that might change as things progresses.
oh, and Desireous, i have a few choice words and a couple of fingers i would gladly pass onto your 'Dom'!
(he sounds like they type who has no respect for anyone, the type we should avoid like the plague!)
Pfft, not a real sub indeed...
i really can't stand all this silly 'competition' (particularly on bdsm sites) amongst subs: all trying to 'outshine' each other with who can take the most pain! which is ridiculous, because it is all subjective. Marks and screams are no real indication either. Some people can bruise at a stroke, whereas others can take a hard beating and be barely marked, some may scream at a pinch when others' moans are barely a whisper during a severe caning.
i think 'Limits' are very VERY personal and unique to each individual.
oops, Sorry if i went on a bit! :o
Thanks LM. I guess I was just wondering whether in a long term relationship one can get to the point that the Dom can understand the limits and what might be possible even more than the sub herself - whilst also keeping her safe, emotionally as well as physically. Perhaps I'm asking too much!
Your remarks about "competition" are interesting. I can feel a new blog post coming on ...
P xx
I think you make a good point and yes in time with a Dom who has proven himself then a Dom can indeed understand the Subs limits and in turn know where and when to push. Can he understand them more than her? Well I would think that really depends on the two individuals involved, because we are all different but I would say it's certainly in realm of possibilities. @LM that's crazy about the competition! I am pretty point blank in telling Dom's what I'll do and what I wont do. I don't care if they like it or not because I'm trying to find the right match for me. I'm not a pain slut and some Dom's actually think that they can change that which is also very annoying. Sometimes I feel like they try to manipulate me as if I'm desperate. I'm not desperate, I'm just submissive and obviously if they think that then they are not very good dom material in my opinion. But that sounds like the same mentality as what you've seen in the rooms. Maybe that's why these particular doms try treating me that way.
Beware Des - as I am sure you do - of Doms who seem to be being manipulative.
Being manipulative is something that any Dom should not need to do - and will destroy the trust necessary for s true D/s relationship. Perhaps some men do see subs as being vulnerable and easy to manipulate. It could be that some subs do fall into that category and need some kind of protection.
Those who are strong, as I believe a sub needs to be, will give short shrift to manipulative "Doms".
Pxx
It's true, it is a 'minefield' out there! Too many so-called 'Doms' assume and expect far too much, far too soon. The way i see it, any Dom worth his word, should allow time for trust to build with a new sub before even attempting to make demands.
@Desireous i totally hear you! Like you, i am certainly no 'pain slut': understanding & accepting the need for discipline is quite different from 'getting off' on a severe beating! ...it DOES seem that (on bdsm sites, at least) if a sub seeks to find a genuine Dom, what she actually gets is a plethora of greedy charlatans eager to prey on her need. :(
.....it's all pretty crap really.
I couldn't trust that. Im sure master J could handle that kind of trust and use it wisely. honestly though, if a dome knows you well enough he wouldn't put you in a situation that made you too uncomfortable. as for pushing limits. Master Rick has been getting more anal than usual lately. -skave ali
Yes LM, I agree that any Dom worth his word should allow time for trust to develop rather than assuming it too soon.
I see you agree slave ali and hope you are enjoying Master J pushing your limits in the anal department recently!
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We have no limits. I've been with him since I was 20 years old. We've been married over 10 years. But I got lucky with a man who'd never push me too far. We fell in love first. He'd have some explaining to do to my parents if anything ever went wrong.
It is great isn't it Bound Emotions when a couple can have that level of trust so that limits become irrelevant. I'm pleased it works for you.
P xx
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