Thursday, 30 January 2014

humiliating

I have written some time ago about humiliation.

It is not something that I am particularly in to. In fact I perceive a contradiction between  respecting someone and accepting their trust and then humiliating them. There is a kind of mental cruelty that it is against my nature to dole out.

On reflection though that seems strange when I am happy to bind, beat and use my woman. Is that not also a humiliation?

Do other Doms have similar feelings? Do subs who are into humiliation find it harder to get their Dom to humiliate them than to dominate them in other ways?

Or perhaps it is just me!

14 comments:

tori said...

I think the use of humiliation is about perspective, the circumstances, more importantly the dominant being aware of the impact it has on his submissive.

If the sub enjoys humiliation then there is no mental cruelty,much like a masochist that seeks out pain and the dominant dishing it out.

In fact i ponder is something genuinely humiliating if it is in fact enjoyed?

I love humiliation, and thankfully my Master provides me with it, rather than bringing me 'down' i thrive on it..its just something that does it for me!

Pygar said...

Thank you tori for this reply. It is interesting and illuminating to hear from someone who gets of on humiliation.

I think the comparison with the masochist is good. Yes - if one enjoys it then is it still humiliation or pain?

I think it is but it certainly changes the nature of it and perhaps gives different response from what would usually be expected.

I know that many of the things I expect from my sub may be humiliating and I think she may get off on the humiliation aspect of it. However, I am not doing it to specifically humiliate her. Does that make any sense?

I'm pleased you are thriving on it tori.

Thanks again and good luck

P xx

lil said...

"I perceive a contradiction between respecting someone and accepting their trust and then humiliating them"

I think that it can be difficult to reconcile those contradictions, and that reconciliation is dependent on the people who are having the experience.
I have a love/hate relationship with humiliation, and it features quite often in our relationship.
I used to worry that he couldn't respect me afterwards, but he said that he respected me more for the depths to which I was willing to go at his behest.
I also think that what happens after the humiliation is over is really important.

Just my two, pre-coffee cents...

Missus Whore said...

I wrote about shame a little while ago, and I think the two things (shame and humiliation) are inexorably linked.

I'm fascinated with it.

I'm difficult to shame in a healthy context. (That sentence seems so odd. But I think you know what I mean.)

You cannot shame me with actions. I take too much pleasure in... everything. Being bound, beaten, used, made to crawl alongside (and that was a surprise to me, I never thought I'd actually do it, let alone enjoy it.) We have yet to find an activity I find shaming. I'm not ashamed of my libido, I'm not ashamed of my actions, I'm not ashamed of my service, I'm not ashamed of who and what I am.

(I'm a very proud woman.)

Which leaves words. If the words are true, they can shame me. When I've wronged someone I am ashamed. But it's difficult to take wronging someone into a context in which said shaming can be accomplished in a healthy manner. (Again, reads weird but I think you understand.)

If the words are untrue, they do not have their intended effect.

You can call me a pig all you want. I know I'm not. Telling me I'm ugly, or useless, or treating me as you would an animal would just... bore me? I think bore is the right word. I know I'm not these things.

And using words that I know apply, there is no shame. I'm proud of it.

So it absolutely fascinates me.

"I know that many of the things I expect from my sub may be humiliating and I think she may get off on the humiliation aspect of it. However, I am not doing it to specifically humiliate her. Does that make any sense?"

Yes, it does. The action you are taking, the intent, the impetus has nothing to do with humiliation. Some might consider it to be so. Even she might consider it to be so. But that is not your intent.

It's like when Daddy gets all Dom-y in public. It's subtle. His intention is not to be dominating, it is something else. Usually protective of me or the children. But man, I get all warm and tingly when he does. Which is also, not his intention.

Pygar said...

Thanks lil. How interesting. You sound slightly ambivalent towards humiliation but I get the feeling that on balance you really like it - perhaps partly because it shows the depths of your submission.

And yes - I think that after-care is so important in all intense D/s activities. Sometimes that can be what helps make it so special.

P xx

Pygar said...

I do find your connection between shame and humiliation interesting Missus Whore.

In my own relationship I want my woman to he shameless. I want her to be proud of her submission and able to share anything with me - physically, mentally and emotionally. Perhaps that may help her to carry out 'humiliating' acts - because she has no shame about them.

What you say about intent makes good sense to me. I'm pleased your Dom makes you feel "all warm and tingly" whether he intends it or not!

Thanks for your contribution.

- P xx

Pygar said...

Anna May says that humiliation gives her a sense of power.

After reading my post she published her own thoughts here. Do visit and read her very interesting post.

- P xx

petals Master said...

When we first introduced M/s into our relationship we had a negotiation where it became clear that neither of us wanted to consider "humilitation" as part of it. There were many aspects of D/s that we thought we would not indulge in, time passes and things that at first seemed shocking we now enjoy though humiliation isn't one of them, I cannot imagine calling petals a "slut" or similar. Recently though she has expressed her interest in an act that would seem to be very humiliating, during discussions she explains it would make her feel "owned" by me. I don't need to humiliate petals to feel dominant or to feel I "own" her. I don't want to humiliate her, but I think that the effect of an act is dependant wholly on how it is accepted, moreso even than the intent behind it. If you spank someone with the intent of hurting them only to find out that they enjoyed it then surely neither of you can think it was a hurtful act? It is in the end all about what the two of you seek or find acceptable.

Pygar said...

Thank you petals Master for your thoughtful contribution. It is very interesting to read your take on this.

As you say, "It is in the end all about what the two of you seek or find acceptable."

Best wishes

- P

ara said...

Dear P,

I agree with Missus Whore, that humiliation is to me more about shame, getting past shame. I think that is why I can have such a hard time with it... but it turns me on. It is scary it does.

On the other hand when I recognized all those inhibitions I feel and how the bounderies of those inhibitions have been stretched and how much that frees me. It makes me happy, more open and far more easy with myself. Just the simple act for a woman to open her legs and expose her sex while that is still in society seen as inappropriate and how that effects both men and women. I see the benefit of being able to start simply because it gives -me at least- freedom.

To go past shame is a lovely revelation, but it needs the security of the other to be there for you, to respect you. WIthout respect it will actually add towards pure degradation and I do not think humiliation in the context of BDSM is about disrespect for each-other.

Therefor I can imagine that it is also hard for a Dominant to humiliate a submissive.

There is this lovely book by Brene Brown about Vulnerability and how vulnerability and shame are so interlinked. She is spot on with her observations.

Love,
ara

Pygar said...

Thank you ara for this fascinating and thoughtful contribution. The point that you and Missus Whore are making regarding humiliation and shame are really making me think. I may return to this theme soon.

Readers who would like to know more about Brene Brown might like to visit her website here where they will also find her TED talks on Vulnerability and Shame.

- P xx

nbs said...

Sir loves to humiliate me in fairly kind ways.. if that makes sense!

I'm often made to show myself off in private places to strangers..who are generally delighted.
I hate it.. and love it and of course, do it for Sir.

I do feel ashamed and nervous and all sorts of things.. but I've learned to trust Sir's choices and
do what He expects of me.

Pygar said...

Thanks nbs - yes perhaps I too need to recognise it is possible to humiliate in a kind way.

It is interesting that your Sir uses public display as a humiliation and that you feel shame from it. It is something that there are many different reactions to. The more exhibitionist may revel in it. For you though the reaction is more complex.

Thank you for your interesting perspective.

P xx

Pygar said...

Readers may be interested in a new post that continues some of this discussion here: revisiting "shame".

- P