Thursday, 2 October 2008


As I got to know subs well enough to discuss their sexual history in explicit detail I discovered almost all of them had been raped. Many of them more than once. Rather than wondering if this was a common characteristic of subs - I began to fear that this might be a common characteristic of women.

One they do not like to share with the rest of the world.

What an indictment on us men - where force is used without consent.


David said...

I am sad to say that in my experience, it seems to be a problem for women in general, not predominantly or specifically to submissive women at all. It is a sad indictment on men indeed.

I think one of the reasons it seems associable to submissives is that I suspect a fair number of women "discover" something of their submissive nature, an appeal to harsh or rough sex during that awful and frightening experience. Many women have confusion about how they could be forced and taken like that, and have those strong sexual feelings. It often times makes the experience all that more awful because they feel somehow responsible or that they like it.

I do not feel that is the case. They may have enjoyed some of the physical action, but there was certainly no pleasure in being taken against their will, in being raped.

Pygar said...

Thanks David.

While many women may have a "rape fantasy" they at least recognise it is purely a fantasy. Sadly too many men do not understand the difference between fantasy and the awful reality.

Alice said...

I think in one respect, David is right. It is a problem for all women in general. I also think that many men that commit this act do not feel that they have commited rape, unless it is done violently.

Women may have rape fantasies, but rape is not a fantasy or an enjoyable experience. I am a submissive and I have been raped. The two experiences have nothing to do with eachother. I had submissive tendencies prior to being raped. After I was raped, I was celibate for over ten years. It has only been through the patience and compassion of my dominant, that I have been able to heal and to get past the memories and scars. I am able to submit to him out of trust. My rape did not bring out sexual feelings in me, it made me feel worthless and used. My submission allows me to feel valued and cared for. I cannot speak for all women, but the only sexual feelings that my rape awakened in me were asexual feelings. I did not want a man to ever touch me again. Luckily, I now realize that those feelings do not apply to every man.

Possibly, submissives are seeking to be able to trust again. D/s is based on trust, not forceful submission. D/s is intimate, rape is brutal. D/s is affirming, rape is dehumanizing. With all due respect, I have a hard time believing the two are connected. D/s gives me the control that my rape took away from me. I am choosing to submit, I am giving myself to him, not being taken.

Pygar said...

Dear Alice. Thank you very much for sharing your experience and your very wise thoughts with us.

One of the awful things that you highlight correctly is that many men who commit rape without additional violence do not regard it as rape. I can remember many, many years ago a male college acquaintance sharing with me the fact that his girlfriend had accused him of raping her. They had gone to bed together so he had assumed it was his right to have full sex with her and could not understand her reaction. Whatever his intellectual intelligence he clearly had zero emotional intelligence.

You express the differences between rape and submission so very articulately. I am sure that many women having suffered rape will have the same response as you to be put off sex. I am so very pleased that you have a kind and loving Dom through whose trust you have been able to regain at least some of your control of your sensual feelings.

You sum it all up so well when you write,
"D/s gives me the control that my rape took away from me. I am choosing to submit, I am giving myself to him, not being taken."

Again - Thank you.


Anonymous said...

I have never been raped, but now that I think about it I was in a very dangerous situation once. I'll think about this more and post on my blog. What a tough topic.

You have written a beautiful, open, and honest account of your experience and it sure rings true to me. I'm pleased you have found a man you trust.

Alice said...

Thank you for your post and your comments. I want to clarify that I did not take offense at anything that had been said previously, but it is a difficult topic for me. I kept my experience a secret for a long time, but that just served to continue to give it power over me.

The responses to my comment here have prompted me to write a post of my own. I hope more women feel led to engage in the discussion. No one should feel shame or embarrassment over being raped, though I had those feelings as well.

I have great respect for both you and David. I appreciate your views and outlooks on the topic. Unfortunately, not all men are as astute and caring as the two of you.

Pygar said...

Thank you Maryann and again Alice.

Alice has posted on her own blog about this - I hope readers might visit to read what else she has to say.


Anonymous said...

Hi I have come here from A view from the top, I am not a submissive in that I am not and never have been in a D/s situation although the subject does appeal to me to a degree and I ahve therefore read quite a few blogs written by mostly subs and a few by Doms.

I was raped when I was 21 twice. Both occasions I was alone with my much older boyfriend. On both occassions he felt that as my boyfriend he was entitled to have sex with me even though I didn't want it. The first occasion I had returned from a gruelling weekend excercise with the TA and was exhausted and weak.

He took advantage of my inability to fight him off. The second occasion was when I tried to break off our relationship because the rape had soured our relationship for me. At the time I told no one for 3 months I felt so ashamed that my boyfriend had raped me not once but twice.

For some time after this I couldn't have sex without his face hovering over me no matter who I was with. This continued until I met a man I fell in love with 2 years later.

All this happened over 20 years ago. It is only in the last couple of years that any desire that I might have to be submisive has surfaced so I don't feel that being raped and having a submissive tendency is linked.

I do have some fantasies about being taken roughly but never about rape.

I have to agree that Alice's comment made a lot of sense

Pygar said...

Thank you very much secretlynaughty for contributing to this subject.

I find it so hard that women feel ashamed that they have been raped. It should be men that feel shame that this should happen - and that it should almost be accepted. This is especially the case where the perpetrator is a partner.

I agree that there is no connection between being raped and having a subissive tendency. Thank you for confirming this from your standpoint.

Yes you are right - Alice wrote a lot of sense.

Thank you again - very much.


Unknown said...

I am an RN with Certification in Addictions Nursing. It is my experience and that of many of my peers, that probably someplace in the area of 85 to 95% of the women we see in treatment have been sexually abused at some point in their lives, sometimes it's been rape, others in a variety of other ways. I have used my experience to open conversations with other (supposedly normal) women and find that a nearly equally high number have had the same kinds of experience. Most women with whom I have talked have suffered for years with undeserved shame and guilt--when they were the victim. Our society needs to do a better job of telling these women that they are not the ones at fault.

For those of us who were abused as children, it may even be more difficult. I suffered for years from free floating anxiety, shame and guilt after being sexually abused by a young man who lived nearby. I surpressed the actual memories for
years until something similar happened to a teenage friend of mine. It took a long period of counseling to get clear myself.

As long as men, young and otherwise, believe that they can do what they want as long as there is no physical violence involved, we will continue to have these problems. The message should be that there is a violence of the spirit that can be just as damaging as physical violence.

We also, as mothers, need to do a better job of talking with our sons about these issues. I know I was fortunate that my son was very young when I went in to counseling. By the time he was 10, I was commenting to him about what we saw on television that was wrong as far as the treatment of women was concerned. He used my discussions as basis for a paper he wrote while in college. Now that he is married and has his own small children, his awareness of the topic has increased to the point where he has asked me point blank if something had happened to me that led to my educating him! I figured that he was now old enough to handle that information! ;-)

Pygar said...

Thank you Lynlass for sharing your knowledge and views. It is distressing that so many women suffer in this way at the hands mostly of men. What I find most distressing is that men still do not even seem to understand the issue. As you say - many believe that if there is no physical violence then there is no rape.

You talk rightly of the support needed for women - and the need for women to talk to their sons ...

But I worry - is there not a need for men to talk to there sons? Surely that is the commitment - that the son should hear it from another man that it is wrong to treat women in such ways?

Perhaps I am being too idealistic but I think this needs meeting head on.

So did I have this discussion with my own son? No I'm afraid I didn't Lynlass. But I hope I brought him up to be a kind and considerate person who would know that such things were wrong.

Again - thank you.


Unknown said...

Ahhh....I realize that I left something out...

At the time of my "educating" my son, I was a single mom. I'd left his dad because he was emotionally abusive and was beginning to move towards the physical side of abuse. I didn't want my children in that kind of environment.

I put the onus for education on mothers at this point in time just because so many men "don't get it". Those few men who do can set the example for their sons and speak with them as well. But for the most part, the only way young men will hear is if their mothers will speak up!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! ;-)