Monday, 29 July 2013


I have published a short video on my more scurrilous blog Beau here.

It shows a young woman showing off the marks she has received from what looks to have been a full body caning. Compared with some of the pictures that are available on some sites it is not extreme - but it clearly was a severe beating the marks of shich will take some time to fade.

If it had been any more extreme than this I would not have published it - and I had doubts about publishing that one. Perhaps that is because of my own squeamishness. For a Dom I am afraid I am a bit of a wimp. I also do not like needles, blood or knife play. That is just personal taste and attitude I suppose and I know there are readers of this blog who perhaps engage in play where they may be marked as severely as this or even more so. There may be others though who find that level far too much and would not consider engaging in such play.

The woman clearly likes her marks even though (or perhaps I should say "because") they are severe. My own woman enjoys looking at marks from play even though they are nothing compared to those on the video. There are perhaps lots of reasons why subs enjoy looking at and feeling their marks and love to have been marked. Above all it is a sign of ownership and submission.

Despite the consensual nature of such play is there a point though at which I should be concerned for a sub who likes to be severely beaten and marked? Is there not a line that should not be crossed by a Dom even when the sub desires that he go further and treat her even more severely? Clearly lasting physical harm may be one line - but even if it is not lasting harm, is it always justifiable? Is there a point where one needs to think of the psychological health of the sub as well as the physical health? Is it always ok to desire such pain and marking?

Or am I just a big wimp?


tori said...

A wimp? no

I think its fair to say that as much as submissives are not all the same neither are doms.

I looked at the video and from my perspective i didnt consider it that bad at all..but then my Master and i do engage in regular s/m and often to the more 'heavier' side of it such as edge play.

I thought about the questions you posed, still thinking on them going to if you have no objections ponder on this on my own blog as well as link here..if thats ok?

its given me a lot to think about.

Pygar said...

That's good - I hope! - if I have given you something to think about tori. If it stimulates you to write more on your own blog then that is even better. Do let me know if and when you post something and I will link to it from here.

P xx

tori said...

hi, thanks

i wrote it, and have now just posted after reading your reply.

Yes it is good, i do enjoy reading a post that gives me pause for thought and this one certainly has!


Mistress Mari said...

I think there is oftentimes a fine line that people who participate in BDSM walk.

What is too much, and what is just enough?

When is a submissive just entranced by the danger of the situation, the trust they have put in their Dom/me, the adrenaline and pain...

And when are they acting in a way that shows severe mental disturbance, and using pain to run away or for some other reasons that are unhealthy?

I think it is up to the Dom/me in this case, to watch their sub, to take into account the past of the sub, the mental state, to say "This is enough, no more, and this is why."

I have had two submissives into severe edgeplay and in the case of one of them it really was just simple extremism and enjoying constantly pushing her boundaries... The other one had severe mental issues and was wanting knifeplay because she knew I would be upset if she cut herself. In the second case I said no, straight off, because I knew without her telling me that she was seeking it for unhealthy reasons. That is not the right reason for such a thing and it is not my place to do that. In the first case I still had a limit. Some forms of edgeplay make me very uncomfortable and while I am fine doing quite a few things over the internet through chat and rp, I would never perform those things in person because it is just too dangerous, imo. Not that I condemn people who do those things, but those are just my hard limits.

So yes, I think there can be a point when too much is too much, but I think that it isn't a defined standard point; it depends on the persons involved in the edgeplay, their mental health, and their limits.

Pygar said...

You can find tori’s post here.

In it she writes a very personal account of what “severe” means to her and the extreme satisfaction and pleasure that she gets from extreme play. Do pop over and read it.

I think it is fascinating to read that alongside Mistress Mari’s comment above. Both conclude that the Dom has ultimate responsibility which the sub relies on. So that kind of puts resolving the issues I have raised firmly on the Dom. It is a real and very serious responsibility.

I am interested in Mistress Mari’s distinction between two subs – one of whom was just into pushing her boundaries and the other who had mental health issues. I wonder, is there a continuum between these extremes? Where does one draw the line along that continuum? Who is to say that the sub who appears to be just into exploring extremes and pushing her limits does not have mental health issues of her own?

Thank you tori and Mistress Mari for your very thoughtful, personal responses.

P xx

nbs said...

I think it really depends on the dominant and the submissive. They have to know one another so very well and trust each other as well.

I've grown into wanting severe marks from Sir, in the last three years. There was a time when seeing the video you posted would have upset me. No longer.
It is of course up to the dom to know the sub and her body language so well that he can stop is he sees she is in distress. And he has to know himself.. and be in control of himself so he can stop.. if he goes too far.

It's a tough question and one that the two people involved should always talk about.. not just once but over and over as things between them change.

As always, a good discussion!

Pygar said...

Thanks nbs. I agree that lots of ongoing discussion is desirable. You agree with the others that the Dom has the main responsibility. I wonder though it it is not just making decisions at the time of a scene depending on the sub's responses - but an overall responsibility about the level of severity of play that is appropriate. This perhaps will take lots of discussion in advance to make proper joint decisions.

P xx

nbs said...

to answer your question, yes, Sir and I both agree it is the Dom's overall responsibility to know how far to go, how severe to whip or cane or whatever.

I am always encouraged to tell him in detail how I reacted to this or that or the other thing when we are together. He has never tried to second guess me but depends on me to make sure he knows my emotional as well as physical reactions to what he does. It has taken me some time to understand why I have to tell him so much and in such detail.. but I certainly do understand now.
So the choices he makes about what to do to and with me are his.. but they are very much made with my imput.
I don't know what will happen when we meet but that is only because he has numerous things from which to choose.
I can always look back and remember.. yes, we did talk about this or that. As shocked as I might be by some things that happen, I am always an active partner in the relationship.

Pygar said...

Thank nou nbs. You give a really good description of how good communication can expand rather than limit what you do together.

I do like your concept of an "active partnership".

Good luck

P xx

G.E. said...

No not a wimp.

I'm glad that mental health and responsibility of parties involved were brought

I've encountered some pretty mentally healthy masochists and I've met some with mental health challenges. A no go for me personally.

Limits are meant to be pushed and all but not when people are left with psychological scars, who does that benefit?

Pygar said...

Thanks GE - my sentiments entirely!

P xx

Jillian said...

At first, I thought she was like me, and bruised very, very easily. Sir has to be careful with me, or I will get bruises in odd places that are hard to explain to co-workers and family. Sometimes very little effort, Sir can create bruises like that. But then I went to her Tumblr account, and I found out the marks were from a session where she had multiple things done to her as she was suspended; she's a masochist. Here is her blog post on it: The Bruising Marks

As for crossing a line, I'm a firm believer that clear and honest communication between Dom and sub are essential to keeping the play within each person's comfort zone. Now, I well understand it's my Dom's job to expand my comfort zone to places I wouldn't necessarily go myself - but he knows where my lines are; we discuss them and talk about things.

Is it always ok to desire such markings? That's not for me to decide for you, or for anyone else. It's for you to decide, with your sub. Submission and all it's little subsets of pain and pleasure are so personal - each person has to decide where they will go, and how they will go.

I could and would never judge someone for their line being "here" and my line being "there" - it's just too personal and there is no right or wrong answer for each couple.

Pygar said...

Thanks very much Mickey for this - and for the link to infinity's blog post.

I do agree with you very strongly about the importance of good communication between Dom and sub. Clearly, as you say, this is very personal to each couple and I am sure note of us would wish to appear judgemental.

I do think though that the issue of when might something be just one step too far may remain. As many have stated above the Dom has a clear responsibility. If a sub defines herself as a masochist this cannot give a Dom carte blanche. He must retain responsibility and make judgements about what is appropriate for his sub.

Thanks again for your very thoughtful comment.

P xx