Saturday, 10 February 2018

questions from the vanilla world...

I recently had a long comment written in response to an earlier post punishment and domestic discipline. The questions asked seemed to be too far reaching to respond to in another comment - and also worthy of wider discussion. So I posted the comments as an Uncle Agony post here.

I was a bit overwhelmed at first by the range of questions and issues raised. However the core one seems to be about the acceptance of punishment in a Domestic Discipline relationship. It boiled down to her last two words...

"But why?"

The questioner is from the vanilla word, has just discovered BDSM and seems genuine in her eagerness to understand it better. Some of her questions though are interesting and challenging in themselves. I hope readers may find time to pop over to Uncle Agony and read the post and perhaps help to start a discussion which may go some way to enlightening her.

Or as I suggested there - perhaps she just needs to dip in her toe to test the water for herself...


Pygar said...

Lea has posted a very interesting response here on Uncle Agony.


Anonymous said...

I tried to reply on the uncle agony site,l but the replies seem to be getting swallowed up and not posting,l so I will try to reply here instead...

Thank you for the reply Lea (and Pygar). It helps me understand at least a little. I guess I was struck by the contrast of the idea that BDSM supposed to be gratifying for all vs the significant focus I have seen on punishment which is specifically NOT supposed to be gratifying for the recipient (at least). It seems like a kind of cognitive dissonance to me, and I was trying to resolve that. The overall BDSM thing is for me almost like travelling to a foreign country or culture. It is interesting specifically because it is different it for your own world, but you might struggle to understand why people believe/behave very differently and find it interesting (and might ask them) to help you understand them better as people, even if it is not something that is right for your life.

Anyway, the whole punishment thing doesn't seem a big deal to you but to me corner-time seems much less severe than being hit. But the idea itself of punishment doesn't seem to phase you, you seen to find it useful to improve your remembering, etc. So one possible answer is that it just that I am making too big a deal over it (based on what I had read). Again I am on the outside looking in so just found that one element hard to fathom. Your reply helped me understand at least somewhat. Replies from others welcome, and thanks again.

Lea said...

Hello, OP!

It took me a moment to find your response, sorry.

I suppose it doesn't phase me any longer. But I think the longer you are immersed in something, the less strange it seems. While the idea of punishment (depending on what it was) didn't really phase me... the concept didn't at least. The completions of said punishments at first was a trial for me. Another example. There are people in the lifestyle that go farther than Sir and I do in their Dominance and submission, with the sub being a slave - no control at all. No safewords, etc. A total power exchange. 7+ years ago, that entire idea gave me a knee-jerk reaction of HELL NO. At least for me. I was fine with them doing whatever they wanted to do. But seven years later... I no longer have that reaction.

People fear what they do not understand. And we have reactions to such things; its normal. I will thank you for being so open-minded in your questions; many vanilla folk are not. You do seem to come from a place of wanting to "get it" so to speak. I've just never encountered a person who wanted to understand but not partake in said activities. So that's novel for me!

I'm hesitant to tell anyone they're making too big a deal over something. Everyone's experience is different, so what seems extreme to some is a trifle to others, and vice versa. But it is enough to understand that the folks involved enjoy it and find it gratifying; they're happy! I for one don't understand the whole "furry" thing, but it makes them happy so more power to them!

Jz said...

side note to Lea and Anonymous-
I actually havebeen peppered with questions by more than one of my friends who aren't kinky but aren't afraid to ask why I am... which is why I did, I'll admit, get a bit twitchy at the assumptions that Anon's curiosity must be based in a secret desire to try it. That may often be the case but it is not invariably so. Some people are naturally of a curious bent. (As one friend said, "We aren't nosy, just interested!")

I didn't address the initial query because my dynamic was/is far lighter than most you will see here and we just don't "do" punishment. But I have to say that I, too, would prefer a punishment spanking over a long, extended time in a corner with nothing to do but contemplate how badly I'd disappointed my dom. We want to please - it's deeply upsetting to be forced to acknowledge failure in that regard - so that makes it a far more effective way to make a point.

Pygar said...

Thank you Anonymous, Lea and Jz. The questions from Anonymous have stimulated a fascinating discussion both here and on on the Uncle Agony blog here.

I do take Jz's point about assumptions (so thank you for that) though I hope I was merely "wondering" rather than "assuming". It has led to further thoughts so I may say more about it soon...

Thnaks again

P xx

Anonymous said...

Original Poster once more... I thought I would shed a little more light on what got my started on my too-long original post (alas, this one will follow suit). First on a lighter note I will share a link/post that seems to agree with my thinking that some others in the D/s world would also find a punishment dynamic personally unacceptable.

First, here is that alternative view that reflects my thinking more closely, where punishment does not seem to play a role, by active choice. It makes more innate sense to me, but from the other comments already made by Lea, etc. I have some better sense of different viewpoints here.

So obviously there are a variety of views, as I understood from the beginning. The post above happens to be what I "would have imagined" people would opt for -- lack of a punishment dynamic. I had not seen it when I posted my original comment.

On to part 2:
The thing that really got me going on this originally was this particular post (below) on a long-inactive blog. I did not want to reference it at first since I find it SO extreme and mind-bending to me, and honestly to me personally worrisome. Just like religion can promote a good or at the far end can lead to extremism and violence, and so can other areas, I have to hope that this is the far edge of BDSM, but this is what got me so hot and curious on this topic in the first place... take it for what it is worth as just my feeling on it.

This apparently is a true "slave", and course we don't know the whole story. She describes her early dating life as a submissive in part 1, but describes what I find VERY difficult to accept in part 2, without really showing the interim years that got her there... She discusses consenting to the below AT PRESENT, but the whole article makes me think she is self-mind-altered and I wonder if her earlier/younger self would have agreed that she "deserved" her (severe and unfair as *I* see it) punishments, for her self-perceived transgressions against her master.

I quote the passage that most scared the heck out of me...

"Master knows I will not be able to count the strokes from this whip, so he kneels on the bed, straddling my back and pulls my head back to stuff a ball-gag in my mouth. This is not to prevent my screams from being heard by the neighbors down the street, because it has holes. Rather, it is to prevent me from biting down so hard that I crack my teeth because the dressage whip is very painful." etc. (Have a look at the whole post, it is quite intense assuming it is real.)

I am NOT NOT NOT tarring all of BDSM or D/s with this brush as I have read many alternate views. But I admit that specific post viscerally bothered me intensely, to see anyone subject to this by her own husband. I don't know the whole picture of course. I would question if someone should be ABLE to consent to this given how close it comes to physical harm. She does apparently retain a safeword, but I wonder if she would ever use it... In any case, I know how it made me feel: queasy, like she needed to be saved from him (or sadly, from *herself* as she is at the time of the article). Like many things such as religion (for example), many may find solace and moderation and a fringe may go way too far ... I personally cannot see Selkie's (the slave's) situation as truly "safe/sane/consensual" from my vantage point, if she needs a ball gag to prevent herself from cracking her teeth from such pain... I am not asking others to justify or be apologists for the same as that is unfair, it is a separate event. But it got me thinking about the acceptance of punishment in D/s overall, which fostered this discussion of far less severe scenarios. Thanks again.

Pygar said...

Anonymous helem said...
Why is it that whenever people don't understand a kink, they have to make everyone involved feel gross and weird for liking it

20 February 2018 at 17:39

I don't think that was the case helem.

I am more interested in why the first negative and less than constructive post I have had in a while also contained a link to a web cam site? That is why I have deleted it.