Monday, 8 December 2008

married ...

I have a couple of submissive female friends whose husbands cannot understand their needs. One of them would love her husband to spank her but, having the laudable attitude that violence to women is wrong, he just cannot bring himself to do it.

Both these subs have struggled with how to satisfy their own needs whilst maintaining their marriages. They have both found some satisfaction with internet relationships. But they both crave real relationships too. One may have embarked on an affair - which could be likely to put her marriage at risk. The other I think has at times been sorely tempted. For now though she has put online Masters to one side - but she feels a big gap in her life.

I too am married to a woman who would be horrified by this aspect of my life. So I have online relationships and secret encounters.

There are many of us who dream of the happy relationships that some of the readers of this blog enjoy.


Dragonfly said...

Happy relationships come in all shapes and sizes, and not all the things we fantasize about would bring us happiness in our realities.

I am grateful that I have people in my life with whom I can express a facet of myself I otherwise keep hidden...

That is what truly makes me happy... xoxox

Anonymous said...

I cannot begin to imagine the internal struggles that occur for a married sub whose husband does not understand her needs.

I find my own situation difficult enough wanting to experiment with my submissive side but not wanting to go behind my Sweetheart's back but knowing that if I want to experiment then it would have to be done behind his back.

I know that with him being away so much of the time I could easily do this without him knowing but I would know I was going behind his back which is where my struggle begins


Anonymous said...

I am another married sub whose husband cannot bring himself to "hurt" her. (his words) I had a relationship with a Dom for a time, and I still miss him. We speak from time to time, but I couldn't reconcile my needs with cheating on my husband, so now I am one of those who dreams about what I am still desperately missing.

til said...

By definition, 'violence' involves aggressive behaviour. By definition, 'aggressive' involves hostile behaviour. Therefore to be be violent, one must also be hostile.

Clearly in consensual D/s, even if that consent is for subsequent non-consensual action, or is for behaviour which is challenging and painful, maybe even degrading, hostility is not present. The moment it is, D/s becomes abuse. So violence and 'D/s' as we know it cannot co-exist.

This still leaves issues with the term 'pain' which classical definitions cannot help us with: pain is generally perceived by the population to mean something that should be avoided. Even coupling the word 'exquisite' with 'pain' doesn't seem to get the message across: pain is extreme sensation, and is not necessarily bad or best avoided.

Pygar said...

Dearest Dragonfly - I too have found some very special relationships. Perhaps you are right that we should be grateful for the happiness we have rather than craving for fantasies that may be just that.

And secretly naughty - it sounds like being just allowed one small crumb of chocolate whilst the rest of it is left invitingly and temptingly in front of you! Is there some way though that you can discuss this with him so that he might give you tasks under his instruction while he cannot be close to you - that may involve others if that was what you both desired? Then it would not be behind his back ... but I suppose could bring different problems.

Thank you wanderingblueyes (what a wonderful name!) for being open about your own situation. There will be many who share your dreams - and principles about not cheating. I managed the "not cheating" for many, many years before I succumbed. Am I happier now? Perhaps more fulfilled but there is some of my integrity as a person that is forever lost.

And Lady Alpha - thank you for your thoughts. Where to start in response? I think it highlights why a man without understanding of the issues you discuss would quite rightly refuse to spank his partner. But there is so much here to discuss relating to a number of previous posts that I hope with your permission to use it as the start of a future post.


Alice said...

As always, this is a worthwhile and thought provoking topic.

I must say that this is why I find both monogamy and marriage to be highly over-rated. To expect two people to be able to exclusively meet each other's needs, especially when that relationship may span decades, is unrealistic. Over time, people's desires and goals can change drastically, someone might be very compatible to you at age 20, but may not be at age 50. If more people were open to allowing some of their spouse's needs to be met outside of the marriage, everyone involved might be happier in the long run.

I agree that fantasies sometimes become much less appealing when they become reality. However, I also think that both submissive and dominant tendencies are an integral part of some people's personalities, making the need to exercise them very strong. To deny those needs is to deny an important component of one's self.

The decision to go outside of marriage to meet those needs has to be a difficult decision that each person must evaluate for themself. Integrety comes in many forms. Does it show more integrety to divorce and walk away from a commitment, or to deny your own needs and risk becoming a martyr, than it does to decide to remain in a marriage and also pursue your own happiness? There are many people who would feel that a cyber-relationship is a breach of fidelity as well.

Sometimes morality is subjective and complicated. I am sure that those individual choices are not made lightly. No one should be quick to judge another person's decisions. Be careful about being envious as well, only the people within a specific relationship know how satisfying or lacking it is. Prior to my first divorce, most of our friends thought we were the perfect couple. Remember, the grass is always greener.

I am delighted that I am in an extremely satisfying and loving relationship, but it is also more complicated than most people know.

selkie said...

You're bringing up points I often muse on... in fact, have written on myself on more than one occasion.

First and foremost, an adult makes the choices that adult makes - I, for one, am not going to decide for someone else what that choice is, nor would I pass judgment on anyone as I am VERY aware that none of us walks in another's shoes, NONE of us knows what internally and externaly pressures are exerted on another individual.

The only time that i find it irritating is when people clothe it in pretence and subtrafuge ... when they act as if NOT fufilling the itch will destroy them. The reality is that we are all multi-faceted ... we are all faced with choices every day of our lives.

Some things are necessary for life; food, water, air. Some things would make our lives unbelievably richer and more fulfilling but require making a CHOICE. A choice which will have imapct and repercussions.

The dynamic in my very long-term relationship has run the gamet from vanilla to very kinky and very D/s - he is conflicted and vacillates. He has abandoned me as as Master - do I miss it? Terribly, yes there is a huge hole in my life and my sexuality has been severely compromised. Do I look for an online Master? Nope. Becuase you know what, each of us makes choices, mine is and has always been him.

That's me... if someone else feels differently, that is their choice- as long as one is prepared to face possible consequences, that is their right as an adult. Just don't pretend that you don't HAVE that 'choice' that you are DRIVEn to it, that making that choice to cheat is something over which you have no control - that's the only time it bugs me - becuase I am a HUGE advocate of personal responsiblity - taking ownership of your choices.

selkie said...

You know Pygar, I'm not usually so forthright.. there is something about your questions that tweaks me LOL
(grins, my word verification is "corrupt" - is that a hint?)

Anonymous said...

My husband knows I like things kinky, he likes to be dominated in the bedroom himself. However, the last few years I have learned that I need more than just "kinky". He has no trouble in giving me spankings when I direct him to do so but to him it's just something fun to do and to shake things up a bit. So physically my needs can be met but mentally, not so much.

I found I need the the control and structure that submission and Dominance brings. There have been past and recent events that make me question my husband's ability in knowing and handling this deeper part of me. So I keep this part of me secret from him.

Since being released from my Master I have chosen not to look for another Dominant to fulfill this need in me. I'm not sure if another would be able to anyways. Until I figure out things with my husband I feel this is the best course of action for me at the time being.

My husband knew of my initial encounters online but he didn't know about my Master. I don't really care if people judge me for what I did. All I know is that I am in a better place for it.


Pygar said...

I continue to be amazed by the ongoing thoughtful, open, honest and very different comments to this blog. Thank you to you all. It is great to hear so many perspectives.

I think you are right Alice that fantasies may be very different as a reality and it is always a good idea to understand that before making rash decisions. Also that it is not good to be envious - and that things can look very different from the inside. We are all humans with our own frailties. I know most friends and family think my wife and I have a very good relationship.

Cyber relationships too are a breach of trust - I am not trying to suggest they are in some way more morally acceptable. They may though be easier to hide.

It is good to be forthright at times Selkie. I hope this is a place where we can be open about our views and feelings without judging or feeling judged - so thank you for your thoughts. I think too that you are right about choices. In the end we are all adults and should not whinge when it is up to us to do something about it if we feel strongly enough. Sometimes though those are hard decisions and I know I too often want to have my cake and eat it.

I wouldn't dare to comment Selkie on whether your word verification "corrupt" was a hint! You will have to decide for yourself. *grins back*

It is so complicated isn't it emdie - but at least having had the relationship with your Master you have made a decision about how you want to act now. I am sure nobody here would judge you. You are in a better place and nobody else was hurt.

Thank you again to all commenters


Anonymous said...

I am broken-hearted. I am married, but unhappily so, and I am not comfortable expressing my sub nature to my husband. I've only recently realized that I am a sub. I have found someone else, also in a committed relationship to someone who is not into 'play,' who is a great Dom so far. Of course, we are limited by time and place and not wanting telltale marks. I am considering divorce. My Dom's fiance is pregnant, so he's not going anywhere. I keep asking myself, can I go back to being vanilla?

Pygar said...

Hello G

Thank you for your response. It sounds a very complicated situation emotionally. You say you are uncomfortable about discussing your feelings with you husband. Is this because you know what his response will be - or that you cannot envisage him as your Master for some reason? Surely talking to him would be a starting point. Your relationship with your Dom may fulfil some needs - but you recognise yourself that he will stay with his fiancé.

I am sure that the above is not the only cause of you considering divorce. So there must be many other factors ... I just hope you have some friends who you can discuss this with. I think it needs lots of talk to get your thoughts straight.

If there are issues you cannot share with friends - then perhaps there are online friends from blogs or forums who you may be able to share with.

Can you go back to being vanilla? I don't know G - or whether that is the right answer for you.

I hope whatever you decide that it leads to greater happiness.


January Blackthorne said...

Regrets, I have a few.

You know better than most what my life decisions have been. You have listened to me agonize and you have always had something helpful to tell me.

I think that when we are faced with the decisions or life dilemmas described in your post and in here, it helps to have non-judgmental friends who listen.

The thing is, you never know what will be the consequences of a decision; it could be very good or very bad.

In the end, you have to know yourself well enough to know whether you are able to live better with the consequences of action or inaction.


Submissive Slut said...

for the past 8 years i have been married to a man that is completly vanilla and out of the 8 years, 4 to 5 of them we have not had relations, due to his overweight problems. I feel frustrated because he can rectify his weight but I think it is more psychological then physiological. He keeps asking me if he had a stroke and ended up in a wheelchair would i leave him for not having relations with me. In that case i would not expect anything from him because it is out of his control, but losing weight he can do if he works on it.

Before i was married i had a relationship with a Master, who was not able to marry me, but i told my present husband about the D/s content of the relationship so he would understand my sexual preference. He was actually happy he was marrying a submissive woman but since the marriage has no interest in taking a dominant role of any sort, nor having regular relations with me.

He has given me permission to have relations with others, as long as i don't get any diseases.

I am not completely happy about not having this type of D/s dynamic with my husband, but it has made me happier with him because he is not keeping me hostage from exploring my needs.

I have met many Dom's since i started my search, one i had a short affair with who was not a good match and the other we are still in talking mode.

Maybe eventually I will have to get a divorce because of the insantity of staying in an unfulfilling relationship but in the meantime, I will be a happier person.

Thanks for having this blog, i read it and learn from you and the comments of the other women.

Morgan said...

Pygar... I'm not sure how to feel upon discovering that you have encounters that your wife does not know about. It is understandable, though I feel very uncomfortable at the thought of deceiving someone in this way. Usually I would feel more hostile towards you because of this, but having read what you write I feel I know you a little bit, and I know that you are a kind, caring man.... who has needs, just like all of us.

Who am I to judge another when I have not been in there shoes? I still love you, Pygar.

Pygar said...

Thank you January, submissive slut and Morgan.

You are right Morgan to feel uncomfortable at the thought of deceiving someone who one loves. I feel more than uncomfortable in doing this and it is certainly not something I am proud of.

I think January explains the dilema very clearly. On aspect is that whatever decision one makes can have consequences not just for ourselves but for others dear to us.

Thank you submissive slut for sharing with us your own difficult situation and how you are currently trying to cope with it. Good luck to you.


Hislavenderminx said...

I found this entry extremely fascinating (as i often find many of your entries) and even helpful. Words such as these help me not to feel so alone.

I'm a sub in a deeply loving relationship with a married Dom. W/we have been close for almost three years, and "closer" only for the past five months or so.. Five of THE most incredible months of my life.

I must say, it has been the most amazing, satisfying, beautiful and tormenting 3 years of my life. I can't imagine a fraction of a moment without him, and yet I long for so much more.

Like I said, it's just helps, reading about what other D/s are experiencing and how it affects their daily lives ~ married or not.

Thank you.

Pygar said...

Thank you Hislavenderminx. It must be very hard having such a relationship with a married Dom. I sense a huge frustration for you - but at the same time a joy in the pleasure you currently have.

There are parallels I think with the post above about polyamory. Even though in this case one side of the relationship may not know about the other side.

I hope you can continue to find satisfaction in your present relationship and that it works out for you all.

I am pleased you find the blog helpful.


Anonymous said...

I just stumbled across your blog and it is so good to hear that I am not alone. I have been married almost 20 years, most of which has been very happy.

About 4 years ago, I started to explore more about my submissive side. I tried to have my husband be more dominant and I was very open about my needs. He did try, but it is just not the same when you are topping from the bottom. I never thought I would stray from my marriage, but I have such overwhelming desires to be submissive and my husband just can't fulfill that part of me. Needless to say, I started to look online for someone.

After some searching, I found a wonderful Master. The problem is that we are both married and we have fell in love with each other. Neither one of us were looking for love, it just happened. We both would like more, but there are so many people that could be hurt including spouses and children.

I don't want to end what we have, because I am not happy without out the D/s aspect, but I struggle emotionally on a daily basis. How do others keep emotions and everday life in perspective? Thank you!

Pygar said...

Thank you anonymous. I think we all have to work hard at finding our own answers to the emotional struggle on a day to day basis. There is no easy answer - and perhaps there shouldn't be. These are not decisions or courses of action to be undertaken lightly. All of our situations are different and we each have to take responsibility for the paths we decide to take.

It is never going to be easy - and I was chatting about this with a sub friend in a similar situation only today.


Anonymous said...


i am currently in love with a married Dom, my marriage has ended and i live alone, i have to tell you i love my Master deeply but the fact that we have to slip around to have time with one another and i endlessly cling to emails and calls is tormenting.

i do love him but i know he'll never leave his vanilla marriage. he's been in it too long and won't leave. i'm having to soul search myself to see if i want to continue in this torturous affair.

it is my desire to have a Master that is available right now i just have to settle for convenience and that just isn't enough.

Anonymous said...

I know this post is a few years old but I'm so glad I found it. I find myself, a married sub, not finding fulfillment in my marriage and I have met a Dom who I think can fulfill my needs. We've been talking but unsure of how to proceed. It's good to know I'm not alone.

Pygar said...

I am pleased Anonymous that the post has given you some reassurance. Good luck.

P xx

Anonymous said...

I have been a submissive for as long as I can remember. I had my first Dom in my teens, but alas we grew apart. I fought against my submissive nature for years, since the man I married was quite vanilla. We have struggled for over 20 years with my needs as a sub. I have had 2 LDR Doms to meet my needs. The last ended months ago.

There is a man that I have known for years that was initiated into the BDSM lifestyle in his teens as well. Both of us have tried to get our spouses to fill the gap without success. We are currently discussing the possibility of a D/s relationship. We both love our spouses and families tremendously, so our relationship would be separate part of our lives. I feel excited and nervous as we enter this new chapter of our friendship. Yet I am conflicted in regards to my marriage as is he. Not sure what happens now, but just thankful for this post to help me see all sides along with others struggles to balance their Dom or sub nature with their marriage.

Pygar said...

I am very pleased that you have found the post and the discussion from it has been helpful. There are lots of sides to the issue and many have struggled like you in how to resolve it. For myself I have been separated from my wife now for some years and happier and more fulfilled. However in my case the D/s and BDSM issue was not what instigated the separation.

I hope you find a solution that words well for all concerned.

I will just leave you though with January's words,

"The thing is, you never know what will be the consequences of a decision; it could be very good or very bad.

In the end, you have to know yourself well enough to know whether you are able to live better with the consequences of action or inaction."

Good luck

P xx

Anonymous said...

Thanks for discussing these issues, they're tricky ones! I am married to a vanilla man and we have three young children. I have only fairly recently realised that I am a submissive. I don't think I'd be up for total power exchange 24/7, but I'd come pretty close if it were an option. I've tried to introduce elements of kink into my marriage, but my husband is not just neutral but quite disgusted by the thought. After a rough patch in our relationship I went looking online, just for curiosity really, and happened to stumble onto an absolutely wonderful local Dom who is also in a vanilla marriage but plays with his wife's permission. We had an online relationship for a few weeks which was totally mind blowing for me, and very educational in terms of learning the extent of my desire to submit. Then we met in real life and it was better than I could ever have imagined. I had no idea that sex could be like that. We are currently in touch almost every day online and meet once a month or so in absolute secret. This would ruin my marriage if it ever got out, and so I go to great lengths to make sure it never will. I'm actually a bit concerned that I'm falling in love with my Master (and I know he has strong feelings for me), but I also love my husband and would never want to hurt my family. It's tough to manage the deception and guilt sometimes, and also I want to be with Him so much more than I can be. But I'm also much happier and more fulfilled than before and in some ways I'm a much better wife now that my need for submission is being met.

Pygar said...

I am pleased you have found this post anonymous. I hope that reading the many examples others have given of their own situations and hos they resolved their difficulties is of some succour to you. There are no right and wrong answers, each must find their own way, hurting as few on the way as is possible whilst finding some fulfillment for themselves.

Your new relationship is becoming very close and while for the moment your newfound happiness and fulfillment is making you a better wife in the longer term you may discover the emotional complications become more difficult to resolve. I do hope you find a way of making it work for you all.

Good luck

P xx

Pygar said...

Readers of this thread might also be interested in a discussion on a similar topic on my other blog Uncle Agony. You can find it here.

Anonymous said...

Hello there
Reading some this article has been both reassuring and helpful.

I am a married woman to a mostly vanilla guy. He is wonderful but cannot fulfill my sub needs.
I have recently become involved (non physically so far) with a married dom whom I know from mutual friends.

I feel I am now caught in this horrible trap as my husband doesn't know about it but I really need my sub/dom time and the dom man is fulfilling this for me.

I think I will have to end the sub dom relationship and see if I can talk through with my husband if he will try to be more dom with me. I have become a better wife in terms of being more serving towards my husband and listening to his needs more but I am terrified of hurting him and so I think I will have to reconsider my dom relationship with the other man.

Pygar said...

I am so pleased that the discussion above has helped you Anonymous. It is such a difficult dilemma to resolve. I do hope it all works out for you.

Good luck

P xx