Wednesday, 2 March 2011


I had planned to move on from my last post about "submission, pain and masochism" to discuss it from the Dom's perspective. However the fascinating comments to the previous post have raised a few more points I would like to discuss first.

♥LETRENTEAVRIL♥ mentioned emotional pain. That seemed to bring in a whole new dimension which probably deserves - and, who knows, one day may get - a post all to itself. Emotional pain seems a very harsh thing to inflict on a sub - more so than physical pain. In many ways physical pain is easier to control - to recognise the impact of what one is administering. But emotional pain? That could be damaging in ways one could never see. Emotional or psychological bruises are invisible unlike physical ones.

I would be wary of administering emotional pain - but I recollect a meeting with a sub friend some time ago. We used to play together occasionally and I used to try to have a theme to make each meeting different. For one I chose pain and told her beforehand. I imagined she would expect it was about different kinds of physical pain - and of course it was - but also about other kinds of pain. I forget now what I had planned but remember introducing the pain of denial, the pain of rejection and of humiliation. I suppose these are kinds of emotional pain but they were intended in gentle ways where the effect was not intended to last outside the time of our meeting - but who can tell?

The other point that came from the comments was the lack of admission of masochism. In the main pain was tied up with the notion of submission - a gift to one's master. A few talked of their occasional enjoyment of pain and how this had developed, perhaps leading into masochism. However there was no detailed comment from someone who was able to describe enjoying pain for its own sake - or for what pain alone could bring to her fulfilment.

I suppose there are few who eagerly seek out pain but there are those who do gain great satisfaction from it. Sometimes they can be the same person. A sub friend - who I have not played with - told me of how she had a low pain threshold. She did not enjoy it at all. But she was seeking a master who could beat her severely. Once a dom had beaten her until she went into subspace. She said he was skilled and knew what he was doing and stayed with her holding her gently and close as she took some hours to come back down from that special place. She longed to find it again.

I wonder if others have had such experiences?


Unknown said...

Hey! I said I was a masochist, and I am...Short and sweet (for once!); I like pain. I'm a masochist. And a sub. There for I'm a masochistic sub - so there you have the one Sir! =)

Pygar said...

*smiles* - Yes you did say you were a masochist NewToThisLife07.

You like pain ...

... but do you like it when you stub your toe, when the dentist's drill hits a nerve, when you burn your hand cooking, when you try to pick something up and your back suddenly goes, when you sprain your ankle when you turn it over on the kerb?

I'm guessing it is pain in a different context. So what must the context be for you to enjoy pain?


nbs said...

I don't like the pain of the stubbed toe or dentist's drill or any other "normal" pain.

I've learned that I do very much like the pain of a slap or a clamp or a crop..and perhaps that makes me a masochist.

I'm not so concerned with the definitions at the moment.

Emotional pain is a completely different thing for me.
Even the idea of emotional pain is upsetting.
That being said, Sir has at rare times hurt me emotionally to bring me to the edge and to push my limits.
We've agreed to some things that do indeed turn out to be emotionally painful.. but I would not change that agreement for anything.

Somehow when all is said and done, I'm glad for the push ,the pain and the new realizations that come along.

Every journey is different.
I doubt that I'll ever have a way to enjoy pain from a stubbed toe!

Interesting topic!

Pygar said...

Thanks nancy - I'm pleased you find it an interesting topic.

I am interested though in what makes the stubbed toe different from the slap, the clamp or the crop. I guess it is all part of the context and the relationship - but I am interested to hear from those like you who know.

I agree that definitions are not necessarily relevant - and also that emotional pain is a very different thing. In retrospect it would have been more sensible for me to have separate posts for each topic. It is interesting though that you have found some emotional pain fulfilling.

Thanks again.

P xx

smilingeyez said...

I think that, for myself, it begins in the mind. When I stump my toe, I am not in the right mental frame. But during a scene, or when I with my Master the mental framing is different. Just MHO.

Pygar said...

Thank you for your perspective smilingeyez.

I think you support my suggestion that it is to do with context. As you say, for you it begins in the mind.

I believe the most successful bdsm play begins in the mind ...

P xx

nilla said...

oops, i've been away with real life and you've got a great convo going on here!

hi,my name is nilla and i'm a masochist.

relatively newly arrived at that, but i really do like and crave pain. NOT emotional pain, and usually coupled with sex, but not always.

it turns me on, and heightens my sexual pleasure.

i like pain that has that intent as its origins, especially if it is coupled with the idea that i am serving my Master with it.

if he tells me to write with an anal plug and nipple clamps, i'll tune some out while i write, but when i'm done, i'm acutely aware of the pain...and the sex-need.

i don't like stubbing my toe, pinching my fingers...those are not sexy or sensual pains...however, i have noticed that those pains are quickly forgotten.

i used to be a crybaby about pain.


*shaking head, smiling*

not so much.

if i stubbed my toe while crossing the room to kneel for Him? then that would be a sensual pain.

weird. but true.


Pygar said...

Thank you so much nilla. I'm pleased you have found us again and are enjoying the conversation.

It is interesting that you used to be a "crybaby" but have now discovered the positive experience of pain.

I am impressed too that you are the one sub so far on here who has been able to imagine a scenario in which you might enjoy stubbing your toe!!!!

I think your words also help support my notion that it is all about context - and help to explain the need for sensuality in that context.

It fits with my own feelings as a Dom - but more of that in a future post!

Thank you very much for sharing your personal perspective.

P xx

Jz said...

I suspect that the reason that many of us don't eagerly hop up onto the masochist block is that, even with the broad scope covered by the various definitions of the word, they are still incomplete.

Pain, or pleasure in pain, seems to be the lynchpin of all the definitions. Yet, even among masochists, very few actually enjoy ordinary, every day pain.

I know for me, it's not even specifically pain produced in sexual scenes. Certain toys inflict a type of pain that does produce a physical sensation that I love -- that sends me flying. Enough, in fact, that he's taken to calling me his little pain slut.
But there are other toys and pains that I find simply unpleasant. With those, I take my gratification in enduring it for his pleasure. Or by doing my best, then squeaking out, "Yellow!" (I never said I wasn't a weenie.)

Additionally, there are other aspects to masochism that simply do not fit me at all. I am not self-destructive, I do not enjoy humiliation, deprivation, degradation, self-denial... these traits are simply not part of my make up.

So, although I will admit to masochistic tendencies, I am reluctant to lump myself under the general heading. I prefer to simply say I am submissive. That may be another vague term, but it's one whose vagaries more suit my own.

Velvet said...

Reaching sub space is such a momentus experience. Yes I crave that again and again. Mostly it happens when M flogs me. I have a very high pain threshold to pain on my backside but far less on my shoulders and back. A long flogging session that slowly builds will send me to a completely different level way past the horniness that a spanking or caning ignites. There are always tears, I beg him to stop but he knows I can take more... and I need more. It is such a different zone to be on.

...and afterwards folded in his arms I feel exhausted and elated and oh so very very close to Him. So complete.

Pygar said...

Thank you Jz. It is interesting that for you even within play it is only certain types of pain that you enjoy. Especially too that some pain you love - it "sends you flying" - yet others you dislike and "endure". Though you gain satisfaction that you are doing it for his pleasure.

I wonder, does he understand which pain is which in these play sessions?

The aspects of masochism that you say are not you at all though seem to fit closer with "emotional pain". I guess there are few who are emotional masochists.

Thanks so much for your perspective.

P xxxx

Pygar said...

Velvet - thank you for this. What a wonderful description of the joy and fulfilment some can reach through pain when they truly understand, trust and care for each other.

P xx

Alice said...

Hello. I am fairly new to all this too but I understand the distinction that you are trying to pull apart. What is it about the pain in play that is so different from everyday pain? What makes it such an integral part of the experience for so many of us? For me I think that maybe it is about how it raises the intensity of things and creates a focal point for my concentration. It keeps me on track and in touch with what he is doing. Totally tuned into him as he is tuned into me.

Pygar said...

Thank you Alice for explaining how it works for you. I think for many it forms an integral part of the experience and a focus as you have described so well.

P xx

nilla said...

i've gone off and thought about this over the weekend.
and it came to me, as i sat in the backseat of Master's car, and we were talking about our next playday, that there is a bit of a love-hate relationship with a few of his labeled "SCT" or silver cake specific.

i hate it.

it stings like an s.o.b. -- yet. He used it on my pussy instead of his hand for a time.

OMG. hurt so goooood....

And even the stinging pain of it when he uses it on my ass? i hate it, hate it...yet found myself pushing back towards it...craving it.

it's really i hate it so much...but it is also an intense and (ultimately) fulfilling part of our play.