Wednesday, 25 January 2012


On D/s contact sites I have often seen subs describe themselves as 'brats' or their behaviour as 'brattish'. I think it is more of an American term but certainly seems to have found its way to the UK in this context.

They tend to do this with some pride and conviction as if it is a positive characteristic. Perhaps making it clear that they are not a push-over. Or rather that their submission is not to be presumed or guaranteed.

To me though it seems in contrast with their submission. Not something to brag about. It is an admission that they cannot submit completely - or at least like to top from the bottom. They seem to be looking for conflict with their Master. A battle for control where he has to prove himself.

I am afraid I could not be doing with it. For me a D/s relationship is based on respect for my control and a real desire to submit. "Brattishness" does not fit in with such a true desire.

I am currently meeting with a friend who is controlling. She knows it and wants to change. She wants a Dom to take control of her instead. I am trying to be that Dom.

It is not easy and there is a long way to go. However she is not being a 'brat' as she genuinely wants to learn to give up control - though she may not find it easy (and neither may I in training her! Though more of that soon.)


Anonymous said...

This is an interesting subject, Pygar.

I'd like to think I'm not a brat. I do things sometimes without thinking it through but I don't (think) I'm intentionally a brat.

Your new friend is very lucky to have found such a kind Dom ;)

Fondly. Sky

Janeway said...

It's kind of a generational thing, too. I'm old enough to remember when the term "brat" was always accompanied by "spoiled".

The main characteristic of a spoiled brat was overwhelming self-centeredness that manifested in willfully bad behavior. I think that's still true of brats, whether they also think of themselves as submissives or not.

It's basically attention-seeking, and not particularly mature. I agree with you - it's not a positive thing.

One can be a strong and independent submissive without being a brat, and a submissive can disagree with a/her dominant without bratty behavior. Sometimes, submissives make mistakes or don't think things through (as Sky says), but that's not being bratty.

What makes the difference is the attitude.

nbs said...

As always, an interesting post.
I'm not the least bit bratty with Sir. It would seem just wrong to me, disrespectful and impolite.
We are playful with one another and tease each other.
Bratty just doesn't seem a submissive trait.
Your friend is lucky to have found you!

jennie bear said...

i have a hard time understanding submission and brat being a possible combination also.

i came to the bdsm community as a mature woman. i was well into my 30's when i discovered my longing to live a D/s lifestyle Before that though, partially because i came from a career oriented lifestyle, i measured a woman by her independence, control, skills, and abilities. Because of the requirements of my job, it is still sometimes hard to balance who i need to be in my vanilla life, with who i long to be with my Sir.

i still continue to work on changing past habits and patterns. Because my Sir has my utmost respect, it's important to me that He find me pleasing and respectful.

i don't understand the pride in challenging one's Sir in a manner that isn't respectful or creates work for Him. Life is hard enough without creating more challenges...


Anonymous said...

In my experiance consistant bratty behavior stems from two sources:
The first is a lack of respect due to lack of trust. This may be from the submisives past experiances or the Dominent not laying a strong foundation, maybe both.
Time, consistency of expectations, communication and building respect/trust I have found are the solution. Taking the time and building the connection with the bratty submisive to change the behavior is well worth the effort.

The second possiablity is that the submissive is approaching the whole thing as a game and the bratty behavior is a way to duck real connection.

Pygar said...

Thanks all. Sorry I have no time to respond properly now. I will be away for a week but have another post scheduled to appear on Monday (I think!)

P xx

doug's fuck toy said...

I found that there were times when I was acting like a "brat" in the beginning of my training with Master. It was a way to try and make the fact that I didn't trust him or didn't want to do what he commanded - and trying to be "cute" about it.

The bottom line, it was something in me unwilling to submit as completely as I was being asked to submit.

Lucky for me, Master is patient and recognizes that training takes time. He sees inside me and loves playing with my resistance. There is less of it nowadays, but when it comes out, he punishes by withholding sex or orgasms. Works for me.

Naga-bot said...

I think it depends on what you define as 'brattiness'. For me (and I'm guessing for the majority of my local community, although I can't speak for them directly) brattiness doesn't have anything to do with the desire to submit. A lot of time, brattiness comes out of the urge to play or bottom. Submission and bottoming are two different things. When I submit, I submit wholeheartedly and do not fight on the subject. When I brat, it's because I'm in a playful mood and I want my Daddy to also feel that way, too.

NoOne said...

Ugh, yes! Finally someone else who is a dominant and finds it as a topping from the bottom syndrome. If a sub describes themselves as "bratty" or "mouthy" I usually head the other direction. While a little playfulness can go a long way I don't want to spend time constantly correcting them to no avail. It's like adopting a puppy who you have been told will never properly be potty-trained.

There are other ways to prove your wealth as a submissive in my eyes.

Pygar said...

Thanks again. There are some very different and interesting responses here.

I hardly know where to start in response.

Instead I think I will perhaps try to respond better in a new post - where I will explore the minefield between Naga-bot's playfulness and Mistress L heading in the opposite direction!

P xx

raahrampage said...

As a brat myself I am proud of who I am.
Although I hate all other littles. I like what I like and I want what I like and if you dont give it to me I'll be a brat. And... I like being a brat, its more fun, I love being cheeky and I think that if a dom/dd can't handle that well... They are just... Rigid and boring... But thats just my personal opinion and preference.

raahrampage said...

I know this post is okd but google recommended it to me when I was looking for helpful info on brats for someone else.

Pygar said...

Thanks raahrampage. You clearly enjoy being a brat and yes, I guess a Dom would have fun trying to tame you or at least keep you in order. I guess some Doms like compliant subs and others enjoy more of a challenge. You sound as if you would definitely appeal to ones who like a real challenge!

Better late than never to this discussion raahrampage. I'm please Google helped you find your way here. Thanks for taking the time to post.

Good luck

P xx

Pygar said...

PS You might also be interested in the further development of this discussion here.