Thursday, 14 January 2016

language and submission

I wonder if I am a stickler when it come to language. For instance, I am forever scolding Inès for saying "I want" rather than "please Sir may I have". (Yes, I know. I clearly don't beat her hard enough!) The use of the correct words somehow seems very tied in with the dynamic.

It came back to me recently. A good online friend who I have been emailing recently wrote that if we ever got to meet she would let me spank her if I so desired. It was a kindness. A gift to a friend. We are just friends after all. So why did I rankle at the words "let me"?

Of course she was right to give permission but the words hinted at a holding on to power. That in "letting me" she would be the one in charge.

When trust has been gained though one then moves into a situation where the power can be given over to the other, putting them in charge. That power exchange has created a new situation, the beginning of a D/s relationship.

Then it would no longer be a matter of giving permission as that had already been given.

Imagine though an alternative. That instead of saying if I desired to spank her then she would let me, she were to say "please will you spank me." Using language in that way is giving permission, yet also passing control over to the other. The power has been given through the request in a way that saying "I will let you" does not. It is also making it clear that there is a desire to be spanked. It is not the mere giving of a favour but a submissive desire that gives so much more.

To me a submissive woman asking prettily for me to give her a spanking is so much more interesting and tempting than her giving me permission to do it.

Or is it all just language ... ?


Misty said...

Words are so powerful! I think that's why they appeal so much to me. Within D/s, not only the words he chooses, but the way he says them can change...everything.

As far as what you are talking about here... Do you think asking, "will you please spank me?" might seem more appealing over the other because it sounds more like *she wants* it? 'Cause either way, she is giving permission and the choice to do so...

blossom said...

i always speak in the third person when talking with Master....and that helps me know my place when it comes to asking for permission to use the bathroom, clothing etc....smiles

Pygar said...

Yes Misty, I agree about the power of words.

You are very perceptive. I think you may be right that I like it better because it also implies "I desire it". I like a desire and eagerness to serve me in a sub. I definitively find it appealing - and often arousing!


P xx

Pygar said...

Hello blossom.

Thank you for reminding us how using language in certain ways can remind a sub of her submission and even reinforce it. It is interesting how many subs find that power in referring to themselves in the third person. I wonder if doing so is a kind of objectification of oneself or implies a loss of self identity?

Thanks for the very interesting thoughts. I hope all is well with you.

P xx

Lea said...

Great thoughts, and I think you're spot on. I'm often being caught at not using the right terminology. Using words of expectation instead of asking for permission, and the like.

To entice a D-type, it's probably not the best idea to say "let you"... though I say that to my Sir often... and catch myself and we have a laugh about it a few times a month!

Jz said...

Well, you know I'm the word priss, so I'm hardly going to be the one to say that language doesn't matter…
Yet, as I am continually reminded… not everyone is as comfortable with language as I am, so I hate to sound too judgmental, either. (Two sentences in and already I'm on the horns of a dilemma!)

With that disclaimer out of the way out of the way, however...
It boils down to mindfulness - Most of us talk in stream of consciousness, so eager to impart our thoughts that we forget to be aware of what words we're actually using. It's sloppy and can get us in a lot of trouble.
("Don't shoot off your mouth unless your brain is loaded.")

I can sympathize with this kind of conversation being daunting, tho'. Bashfulness can tie the tongue of even the most mindful, so although it's a klunky way to say "I'm willing", I can see it could be hard to be brave enough to just bluntly ask, too. (She says on behalf of all the other Weenie Girls out there. ;-p)

(Did I come even close to answering your question?)

Pygar said...

Thanks Lea. I think it is great that you can have a laugh about it afterwards. There is a danger in all this discussion of correct vocabulary and use of language that we can all start to take ourselves much too seriously.

Good luck

P xx

Pygar said...

Hi Jz

Hope all is good with you.

Did you get close to answering my question? Well perhaps that is for others to say but it certainly made for interesting reading along the way!

There is a danger that getting too hung up on the language ignores the aspect of what is behind it. Perhaps I am interested in the psychology it reveals. If a sub learns to use the "correct" language as determined by her Dom but underneath is thinking the opposite then using language in that way is not illuminating or influencing her psychological attitudes. In Blossoms example of speaking in the third person there may be subs who have just learned that but it has no real influence on them. For others though it may have a real impact on how they perceive themselves and how they relate to their Dom.

Perhaps it is as Misty suggests. I don't want someone to just give themselves to me. I want them to truly desire to give themselves to me.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for joining in.

P xxxx

little monkey said...

I think this ties into much larger social questions about how language is coming to be used (or no longer used) in society in general. It seems that the use of a wide vocabulary is falling out of favor and language is being simplified. Something I personally lament (despite lamentable typing skills (hi Jz) I do love words). Unfortunately I know far too many people that would see very little operational difference between "You can spank me", and "Will you spank me". While both convey permission the tone and nuance is completely different. I agree that Misty might have hit the mark with her comment.

Pygar said...

Yes little monkey - I agree there is a much larger issue about the use of language in society. For instance we English have bemoaned for a long time the inability of Americans to speak proper English.


Sorry! Just joking!! Honest!!!!!!

Though that perhaps highlights the changing use of English by young people and by different groups across the world. It was fascinating when I was in Shanghai to see how the Chinese used English in very idiosyncratic ways. I also discovered the growing use of an international English between different language groups that was very different from the English spoken in English speaking countries.

But yes, OK, Misty got it right with her comment!

Great to hear from you. Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

P xx

abby said...

As a retired English teacher...words are important. I believe they help the mind set of both the submissive and the Master/Mistress. Master is a stickler for such things...but then so am i.
hugs abby

Pygar said...

Hi abby. As a retired English teacher you are biased! LOL I am pleased to have your agreement though.

Hugs back

P xx

Anonymous said...

Very interesting. Maybe I need to change my language and see what happens.

Pygar said...

I do hope you let us know what happens when you change your language His slut.

Have fun!

P xx

Simina said...

My owner and I are very low protocol. He's not one for micromanagement and policing language is in that territory for him. It's not something he has the desire to monitor. I've joked about linguistic loopholes before and his response was "you know what I mean, so don't make me phrase shit like I'm making a wish to a djinn."

As long as I'm generally respectful according to his standards, he doesn't much care how I phrase things. I have a hard enough time verbalizing needs and desires as it is.

We are very informal people, so it works for us.

With play partners, there is no power exchange involved so its more like "hey, wanna come over and beat me?"

I'm a linguistics nerd, but I generally apply it more to my fiction than my personal interactions.

Pygar said...

Thanks Simina. Like your owner I am not into micromanagement or strong language protocols. I was interested though in how use of language gave an insight into the level of submission or even lack of it. Once there is a protocol then perhaps that insight is lost.

However, "hey, wanna come over and beat me?" sounds very enticing!!!

P xx