Wednesday, 7 September 2016


In a comment to my previous post humiliation, needs and likesLea wrote,"It takes quite a person indeed to be able to humiliate but still retain the loving part of the relationship."

That has had me thinking about a few things.

The D/s lifestyle and BDSM activities include many things that would be anathema in normal society. How can one humiliate or cause physical, emotional or psychological pain to someone on a regular or ongoing way and call it a loving relationship?

From the outside it must seem impossible or at the very least peculiar and strange. I am sure many would assume such relationships are abusive - and in some cases I know they truly are from correspondents who came to realise that was the nature of their relationship and then chose to do something about it.

For many perhaps such activities are kept within boundaries and the trust and respect and desire to meet each others needs in an equal way is what characterises them as loving relationships. Many though live D/s (and other classifications that better describe the full nature of their relationship) on a daily basis. It is then not a separate activity with clear boundaries but an essential part of the relationship.

How in 24/7 relationships does one ensure that the barriers between respect and abuse are not crossed? The Dom has clear responsibilities here. But he is the one with the power. And, as Lea wrote, it takes quite a person indeed...

Many relationships, like mine, are on a continuum between in the bedroom only and 24/7 lifestyle. That may be from choice or from practical constraints such as family, social contacts and employment. I wonder though if the closer one is towards the 24/7 lifestyle end of the spectrum the harder it may be to retain that essential love and care and the more danger of it degenerating into abuse.

I have found it hard to find the right words for this post. Do I have it totally wrong? How can one ensure that love, care and respect are truly there when activities of hurt and humiliation are also key parts of the relationship?


Misty said...

People show and accept love/care/etc. in different ways. Finding that "sweet spot" between two (or more) people is tricky for sure.

I see love in pain and suffering, but I also need hugs and understanding...its all about finding a balance. :)

Pygar said...

Thanks Misty

I think we all can do with hugs and understanding. I'm a great fan of hugs! And yes, balance is so important. I suppose the part I find harder (and some may find impossible) to understand is seeing the love in pain and suffering.

Are you saying that where someone desires pain as part of the dynamic then it is a loving act to inflict it? I can go along with that within the right context. It is perhaps "suffering" that I have more difficulty with.

P xx

Misty said...

This is another time I find word definitions to be of little use. :)

If you can see pleasure in pain, than why not beauty in suffering? After all, it's not really suffering...

Not only am I able express my love through suffering, but the more I "suffer" the more useful I feel and the more fulfilled I become. I thrive when I am able to give in extreme ways...suffering is a little thing with a big reward.

Tamar said...

"The D/s lifestyle and BDSM activities include many things that would be anathema in normal society. How can one humiliate or cause physical, emotional or psychological pain to someone on a regular or ongoing way and call it a loving relationship?"

Q and I manage this pretty It took years of building trust and open communication skills but now it's pretty easy for us to slip into a scene with humiliation, physical, even emotional/psychological pain if we're both feeling like being edgey, yet slip out into loving, adoring, caring partners again pretty seamlessly, with both of us having enjoyed the hell out of the scene and usually laughing, overjoyed and exhausted, cuddling, and kissing and reconnecting as lovers afterward.

An example is a recent scene- rather spontaneous, where he ordered me to bend over the bed, I happily obeyed, and he proceeded to cane me to tears, having me on the verge of calling "yellow", then decided he wanted to fuck me up the ass, knowing and trusting me to let him know if I wasn't cool with it (I totally was) and during, pulling my head up to his by the hair and growling in my ear about how he was wanting to humiliate me, say some things to push me emotionally and was I up for that? I was and let him know verbally, "Oh god, yesss". LOL And he did, and it was freaking hot for both of us and we both enjoyed the hell out of the scene, collapsing exhausted and grinning and cuddling afterwards talking breathlessly about what we liked, what was really hot, what we wanted to do more, etc.

I think it comes down to communication and consideration for your partner, regardless of what titles you claim. And being lucky enough to have kinks/wants/needs that play well together. It's awesome when they do, but it took us years of practice to get to this point- lots of mistakes, stops and starts, failed scenes, frustration, embarrassment- till we got past being shy and self-conscious with each other and started communicating more openly and authentically and finding things we both loved to do and training ourselves to work together safely in scene.

We love each other and respect each others limits always, and try to indulge each others wants and needs as often, as much as we can, and BDSM is just one of those wants and needs. We communicate openly, honestly, and often. We enjoy sex together, play together, and satisfy each other physically and emotionally. We support each others' dreams and try to ground each other in reality and try to make sure we're both happy and healthy and taking care of each other. It really doesn't get much more loving than that! =D

Pygar said...

Thanks Misty. Yes, I think that the way we use words is perhaps often different in a BDSM contaxt. or perhaps the meaning of the word shifts because of our relationship with concepts such as pain and suffering.

"If you can see pleasure in pain, than why not beauty in suffering? After all, it's not really suffering... "

Thank you for expressing so delightfully how you express love and gain fulfillment through suffering.

P xx

Pygar said...

Thank you Tamar for describing so beautifully the loving nature of your BDSM relationship.

It appears to have been built over a long period of years. It perhaps takes that length of time to create that trust and develop the openness of communication that seems to be at the heart of this.

"We support each others' dreams ..." Perhaps that is something really positive for us all to strive for in loving BDSM relationships.

P xx

willie said...

As usual I am probably coming at this from a different perspective than some. For me, and if I sound like I am repeating myself I apologize in advance, pain is a necessary 'evil'. Pain takes me from my head. Or better quoted from an article,

"you are taking her out of her critically thinking mind and putting her back into her body. Much of the erotic pain that is involved in d/s serves to shut down her actively thinking mind so she is free to feel and respond spontaneously and that is where much of the freedom in submission can be found." (Souce~

I view it like this so I don't actually see it as potential for abuse. However I am in a loving relationship with a man I trust. I trust that when he is inflicting the pain upon my person, he still remembers the person I am, and respects me as such. I don't think I could stand there and have someone else beat me and leave my critical mind behind. I would be distracted by the motive.

Pygar said...

Thanks Wilma. Different perspectives are often illuminating.

You see pain as "a necessary 'evil'." One that helps you find a special place in your mind. Though presumably your partner is also getting something out of it. I imagine that he gains pleasure and satisfaction in being able to help create that special experience for you. That in itself can be powerfully satisfying. Though perhaps too he enjoys the administering of the pain. Whist I fully accept that you are in a loving relationship, it is perhaps that part of the inflicting of the pain that many might find difficult to accept as a key part of the loving relationship.

For you is the actual activity of administering and receiving pain and gaining special experiences part of the expression of a loving relationship or alongside it?

Sorry - I am not intending to be challenging but just investigating the ideas.

P xx

willie said...

No worries I didn't see it as a challenge. You know I don't know if I can answer that question, as I am unsure.

Barney, initially thought Dd, which is how we started out, was an 'unusual arena in which to bring about change' in our relationship. At the time he very much did it because I asked him to. So back then I would say it was an expression of his love to do something he wasn't comfortable with. As time went on the tables turned. LOL. He became MORE than comfortable with it.

Sometimes I liken the necessary evil to getting a needle ( I'd say vaccine but I don't want to open up that can of worms!). We need them to keep us 'healthy' yet no one really likes taking their child to have it done. We do it because we want the best for the ones we love.

I understand it is an obscure analogy, but it is the best I can come up with. In addition it really has some major flaws! That being said, while my husband may have no issue administering pain, and on different occasions gets a rise (pardon the pun) over it, it is primarily because of my submitting to what he is doing that causes this reaction. Also the knowledge that he will bring me to where I need to be.

On the flip side of the coin,my best friend is in a TPE with her husband who is a self professed sadist. She gives herself to him, freely. What more of an expression of love can that be. People may have a difficult time understanding, but to give yourself to the one you love whether on the giving or receiving end ( pain not withstanding), by CHOICE is the ultimate act of love.

Probably Did NOT answer your question at all~! lol

Pygar said...

Whether it did or not it was very interesting! Thank you Wilma.

Though your friend in the TPE with a professed sadist opens a whole new can of worms in relation to this question... !

P xx

SwitchingFun said...

Hi Pygar, welcome back from your vacation..!

You know, I often received those questions, especially after knowing I am in a S&M relationship. My answer is always the same: I trust my Dom that he won't cross the boundaries we have agreed and he trust me to let him know whether I can take more or no more. So I agree with Tamar that trust and communication are the answers.

I'd like to add one more point though: finding the right play partner, someone who is enjoying and thriving over the humiliation and the pain. Abuse is when we are 'barking up the wrong tree'.

The right play partner can differentiate reality from scene. For example, for me I do not see the Dom who 'hurts' me during the scene as the same Dom who lives with me. Because outside the scene he would never hurt me. So it's like fantasy roleplay. Others might see it as a challenge to accomplish like an Olympic athlete competes for medal. Another sees it as relection of care and love. It's safe to say, no one is feeling the actual hurt from the humiliation and pain here, instead we all are enjoying it, feeling some fulfilment from it. In abuse, the hurt is real as it is for the victim and it caused mental breakdown.

And speaking as both S&M myself, I do not receive or give humiliation and/or pain 24/7. They're just two elements from many others in S&M plays. And when we're in real relationship - D/s or M/s - by nature we adjust ourselves with our partner which make our S&M needs more manageable. This is another difference S&M play from abuse because abuse constantly occurs.

Hoping the above might answer some of your questions.

Pygar said...

Thank you for your perspective SwitchingFun.

Yes, I guess it is a very sound technique within a 24/7 relationship to keep humiliation and pain, for instance, within the boundaries of play or scenes. That does not take away from the 24/7 nature of the relationship but perhaps provides a safe place to use it within a loving relationship.

You've clearly found a way that works well for you. Well done - and good luck.

P xx

DM said...

A Dom does indeed have a huge responsibility once the control has been gifted to Him/Her. The breaking of that trust can be devastating and have very real consequences. It shouldn't be entered into lightly. For reasons I won't get into my lifestyle is now on very public display and I will soon be called to testify on the very intimate details of what was a 24/7, long term consensual marriage/lifestyle that imploded into abuse and insanity. To defend the choice of a lifestyle that can appear abusive from the outside looking in, yet have to convey when real abuse takes over and the how the shift in our relationship occurred from one to another will be my next hurdle in life. It's not the acts in themselves that are abusive, it's the intent behind them and breaking the trust that makes them abusive and wrong. Huge difference. The one I trusted, literally with my life, is now using a private, intimate, sex life that was consensual and followed our rules until it didn't, as a weapon to further humiliate me, so he thinks. Being submissive doesn't mean I'm weak or a coward. It's a fine line that when crossed and the trust is gone takes the lifestyle from something quite beautiful in a symbiotic way to destructive and ugly in seconds. With that said, to never live the lifestyle, love or trust again allows the perpetrator to continue to control the dynamics even once a hard limit of NO has been screamed over and over. I choose to live my life well, free from abuse and on my own terms as a true submissive who has hard limits that I won't allow to be crossed. The key word in all this is choice. Even in a TPE one must choose that path for it to be healthy. One can't control how a body and mind responds to the aspect of this life that appear harsh or abusive to the outside. One can control a level of participation that is fulfilling to a individual soul.

Pygar said...

That is a very powerful comment Dani. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

What is great is that you have discovered your own strength and ultimately shown that you are stronger than him. You are so strong that you can continue develop your submissive nature with confidence that you have the knowledge and experience to be able to take back the power in that exchange if ever you need to.

I wish you all the very best in the future Dani. Thank you again for your inspiring story. I hope other submissives may be able to take things from it that will offer them support and advice.

Good luck for the future

P xxxx