Thursday, 6 November 2008


Following an email exchange this evening with a reader of this blog I began to wonder if rather than men masquerading as Doms it might be that some might just lack competence at it and are too inexperienced and lacking the knowledge to realise the commitment needed.

This post however is a follow-up to the previous post "masquerading?" which looked at how to recognise "Doms" who might be wanting to misuse subs. I had already written this new post but had held it back for personal reasons. I think it follows on well though from the discussion on the previous post ...

Despite the fine words we shared in my post about domestic abuse praising Dom/sub relationships. Doms are not always kind, gentle and caring souls thinking only about the fulfilment and happiness of their subs. We are all human.

A very good friend of mine has had some very unfortunate experiences with men who describe themselves as Doms. I believe she has been abused mentally and physically. She is eager to build a successful relationship with a Dom and she has much to offer. It is not ideal but because of her personal circumstances she has had to try to get to know Doms through internet contact sites. She has been misled, lied to, cheated, upset and badly hurt. They promised so much but gave so little. In fact they gave virtually nothing but took so much. There is a giving of trust in such relationships. Because this trust has been broken so often my friend now feels she can trust nobody. That in itself is a great sadness and is real psychological damage she has received from these men.

She is such a beautiful, kind, genuine, caring and submissive woman - she could have given these men so much. I am bemused at how they can toss her aside so thoughtlessly and cruelly.

Finding the right partner to try to build the quality of relationship we were talking about earlier can be so very difficult.


Anonymous said...

This is an interesting discussion you are having and I am keen to hear from others. I've never been in a 24/7 or live-in D/s relationship so perhaps that is significant in itself. Either that or I have been very lucky with the few men I have trusted with my submission.

Anonymous said...

Lotus you *have* been lucky it seems. I was following a thread on a board I frequent that discussed this very topic.

There are an extraordinary number of abuse stories out there. A quick google search says "Intimate partner violence made up 20% of all nonfatal violent crime experienced by women in 2001. " ( Since statistics can only be taken from reported cases we can assume the rate of physical domestic violence is greater, and that when we heap emotional abuse on top it's even greater (I shudder to think of what the actually stat might be).

Pygar you wrote: "There is a giving of trust in such relationships."

The more I think of it the more I feel that this is the problem...especially in BDSM. In the world of power exchange we are giving so much to our partner. We are often trusting them with our very lives. Trust shouldn't be given (imho) but earned. I used to give my trust, that was before my ex. Now a partner must earn my trust. It's not impossible, not in the least bit. I just set the bar much higher and assume nothing.

Why we should trust them is in their character, not in their words. Character is reflected in their actions towards me and others.

Pygar: "Because this trust has been broken so often my friend now feels she can trust nobody. That in itself is a great sadness and is real psychological damage she has received from these men."

This is a great sadness. It is a great sadness for any person with a big trusting heart to have it trampled under the foot of someone with a small destructive one. She can learn to trust again, but I'm afraid it will never be the default it once was... but maybe in this world that is sadly the way it needs to be.

One more thought to throw in the pot after further considering Lotus' luck. Is it luck or is it good boundaries? I've looked at the question of boundaries in myself recently and found it to be quiet interesting. I can see where I have been hurt many times because my boundaries were not as strong as they should have been. Do submissives unwittingly have more mailable and porous boundaries? Is this due to their nature or due to the search for fulfillment because of their nature?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with the world. - Bella

Anonymous said...

I am sorry for your friend and wish her the all the best in the future. Before entering into a 24/7 relationship I did a great deal on research and continue to now. Even with all I had learned and many years of experince playing before the 24/7 I have been overwelmed at times with the enormity of my task. I have made mistakes and I try to learn from them. I can't imagine undertaking this task/role with out doing the homework.

I think one of the problems Doms face is a believe by us and some subs that we are "suppose to know" how to tie, how to punish, how the sub feels, etc. and it's a lot to know. Add to it a natural tendancy towards arrogance and I think the potential to over reach is there for us all.

Subs would be better served if we all took a test or had certification but as this isn't likely to happen it falls back to communication. So much talk but if it is not there I believe that should be your first red flag.

Anonymous said...

I'm really sorry to hear about your friend, Pygar, it's a sad thing when trust is lost completely. Not only in other people but probably in one's own ability to spot such twit heads. However, she must trust you somewhat to share her pain about it. So that is something for her to build on.

This happens within the vanilla world too, it's not only particular to the BDSM community. Like Pygar said in an earlier post some Doms (or insert the word "men/women", what have you, because it isn't just one gender who is doing this) are just shits and I won't excuse my language on this. People like that make it very daunting and hard for anyone to find a caring and committed partner.

It doesn't help that society has this driving need to have everything paired up. So people get stuck with the "I don't want to be alone" complex and end up staying in a bad situation thinking it might get better. They think it might go back to the way it was at the beginning where there was the sweet talk and whatever else used that ensnared them.

I had a friend who was with a man for about two years (this was a vanilla relationship not kink) and he had all the good points: good looking, a well paying job, nice apartment, he wined and dined her, but after a certain period of time he started to treat her like crap. I asked why she stayed with him and her answer was always about something "nice" he did for her at the beginning of the relationship, it was never in the present sense. I pointed this out to her and she then admitted she would have felt like a failure if she couldn't somehow make it work. It was going to be one more relationship she somehow screwed up in her parents eyes. She's since moved on and after a few more questionable men finally has someone who treats her like gold.

So there is a lot of outside pressure at times to make something work that isn't worth it. Also, it seems, you have to go through a pile of jerks to find that special someone to really appreciate them and know what a gem you finally have found.

I have no idea if this is relevant to your post, Pygar, but those are my thoughts from it.


Pygar said...

Thank you lotus - as you say perhaps you have been lucky as Bella also says - but I do know other women who have found a partner without the tribulations I have described.

As Bella says though there are so many abuse stories and the trust that is inherent in D/s relationships perhaps opens them to such possibilities.

Bella talks interestingly of boundaries. I think this is something we will come back to.

Even with a Dom who is genuine and thoughtful there can be problems. I have had my own problems and Sir J also talks of this. Thank you Sir J for doing so. Doms are not angels - not even Pygar! We are human. There is a lot demanded of a Dom. We cannot all be up to the task all of the time. This is something else I hope to return to.

Thank you also emdie for reminding us that these problems are not confined to the world of D/s but are inherent in all relationships.

Thank you to you all for your thoughtful comments.


selkie said...

Ultimately, I think if one takes the same approach to a potential D/s relationship as to any relationship, there is more chance of success. i.e. use caution. look for warning signals. listen to your gut.

There is a tendency, I think particularly when involved only online to believe that there is sincereity when all that is there is a facility with words. It is not difficult for predators to "become" the desired party when conversations provide a plethora of clues as to what the individual seeks.

For newbies, there is ALWAYS the danger of equating forcefulness with dominance, of thinking demands are part of "true" Dom's persona and that obeying without question is her "duty" - when the bottom line is that a submissive owes NOTHING to anyone to whom she has not committed and she should NEVER commit without a clear understanding and insight into her potential dominant ... and sorry, but that takes TIME.

I'm sorry about your friend, but I woudl give her the SAME advice I woudl give any of my real life friends - look closely at yourself as well when relationships keep souring - (true in everyone's case, including my own, not pointing fingers_)- figure out WHAT are the triggers, why you are being attracted again and again to men who hurt, disappoint, abuse you - figure out the whys and where the attraction lies and then you have a chance to change the behaviour.

Not that I exonerate those men in any way, means or form - just we all need insight sometimes into our own often self-destructive patterns.

It is amplified in a BDSM setting as the innate desire of a submissive to serve often causes her to make excuses.

(As an aside, I would be interested to see further discussions on Dominance - I agree that it can be VERY unfair to Domiants to be expected to be all things all the time - they too are human and thus fallible and to think otehrwise is to cheat each other of a rich, multi-faceted relationship- as who wants to live with an ikon!)

Pygar said...

Thank you selkie for your thoughts and advice.

I hope soon to write about exactly the points you raise in relation to dominance.


Anonymous said...

To rewrite the classic syllogism: Doms are human; humans are fallible; therefore, Doms are fallible.

If we accept that Doms will make mistakes, then a sub has only two choices: a) search only for highly experienced Doms who have, presumably, already learned from their mistakes, or b) be prepared to 'roll with the punches' (so to speak) as the Dom-- like the sub-- learns from the lessons they jointly experience.

At the relationship's start, both parties should agree that they understand that mistakes will be made-- on both sides. Clear boundaries about the categories of unforgiveable mistakes should be agreed upon. (For example, anything that adversely impacts upon a sub's children is is any action (or inaction) which could cause real harm to the sub.) Other than that, well, everyone, just learn from each mistake and don't make that one again.

As Doms we try to think deeply about our subs and slaves, to understand them thoroughly, and to always do the right thing. But it's vanity to believe that we'll never make an error in judgement, or that everything we say is clear and cannot be misconstrued.

At the risk of an abrupt subject change I'd also like to say something about punishment and "punishment". When I spank or flog My slave's ass I might tell her that she's been a "bad girl" and, therefore, needs to be "punished". However, that is not punishment (nor has she been a bad girl) and we both know it; I do it because it's enjoyable for us both.

We both know what punishment is. It's quite unpleasant.

I've been blessed with wonderfully obedient, skilled subs and slaves who truly work very hard to please Me, so I use punishment rarely and very sparingly. (I reward lavishly, with orgasmic frequency and intensity for good behaviour and, sometimes, as lesson reinforcers; this instructional method is astonishingly effective.) Generally, some slight evidence of My displeasure is quite enough to cause My slave physical upset; to say, "I'm very displeased and deeply disapppointed in you" is far too severe and could be devastating to a devoted slave.

I've heard tell of 'doms' using a sub's limit as a punishment(!), a practice that I find perverted and immature.

Anonymous said...

Master Gaach

For me this wasn't about mistakes.. well apart from my mistakes in charater, it was about men claiming to be Dominants when they are Nothing more than players!

Lies and deceit are not mistakes.

Pygar said...

You make some interesting comments about a number of things Master Gaach - especially in relation to Doms making mistakes. I have written a little of mistakes here and may come back to the topic.

However anonymous is right in that in this post I was not talking of Doms who had made mistakes. That would be excusable. I do not believe the behaviour of the Doms I talked of in this post is in any way excusable.

- P

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Pygar and emdie, for your corrections.

Yes, quite so: deceit is a hurtful, purposeful act, not an error in judgement; abuse of any kind is always inexecusable and has no place in any healthy relationship, be it D/s or vanilla.

In my rush to say what was on my mind I paid insufficent attention to your words.

Clearly...I have made a mistake!

Pygar said...

Thank you Master Gaach

But to avoid any further mistakes or misunderstandings I would like to make clear that "anonymous" and "emdie" are two different people.

- P

Anonymous said...

(*bows formally*) Thank you, Pygar, for your correction and patience...and apologies to anonymous and emdie.

It seems that I have, unwittingly, proven My own point, eh?

Anonymous said...

No worries. It was an honest mistake of identity as I usually post under an anonymous heading but for future reference I have always signed my name.