Monday, 14 November 2011

kind or evil ... or a little bit of both?

In the comments to my last post Shadow described himself as an evil Dom. I wondered whether subs would be attracted more to an evil Dom than a kind one. Shadow felt that the evil Dom definitely had an advantage. Anna also recognised the appeal of a evil dom.

I am sure there may be times when I have a glint in my eye when I may play the part of the evil Dom - but deep down I hope I cannot be truly evil but instead my kindness will ensure my subs know they are safe.

However I do wonder whether many subs secretly crave the danger of an evil Dom and whether or not it is important to know if they scratch the surface that there is some care and kindness there also.


Alice said...

I guess it all depends on what is meant by "evil". The dictionary definition of evil includes things like "morally wrong, wicked, injurious, harmful, bad conduct or character, etc." I know I would not want a Dom like that, and it's hard for me to think that anyone would truly want a fully evil Dom. However, what you said about playing the part of an evil Dom while your sub knows deep down that you are kind and they are safe... that does sound appealing.

blossom said...

i personally would not like an 'evil' Dom, someone who may cause you injury, but there are those who do. But a Dom who has that little bit of an evil spark that comes out now and again sounds very appealing. i think its very important that a sub knows that she will be in the safe hands of her Dom.

Jz said...

I am not tempted by evil men.
I prefer good ones - with deliciously wicked minds...

Heather1 said...

I would not want an Evil Dom but I wouldn't want an Angel either. R has just the right balance of both and I know that I am safe with him no matter what is happening.


nbs said...

I'll take a bit of evil please.
I see it in the way his eyes change color when he's planning to unleash the sadist who lives inside his nurturing self.

Southern Sir said...

I think that is where that balance comes in, and trust, how well you know each other, to be able to let the evil side show yet the other knowing you well enough that they fully trust in you knowing that there would be n oreal harm.

little said...

mmm a little bit of evil..yes, but agree with Alice, depends on the brand of Evil. I find that I feel my submisson more keenly when there is something more severe in an interaction. I am decidedly more turned on..I think it might be tied into a perception that I have less control in the situation than if treated toooo kindly. For me there's strength in a bit of Evil. Having said that I'd like to know there's a human being under the Evil. :)


Pygar said...

Thank you all. I think Alice sets the scene just right from the start - thank you Alice. Surely nobody can desire someone who is truly evil.

Can they?

But the feeling of an evil Dom when you can also know you are safe ... ?

As blossom says - if you know you are safe then an evil spark can sound very appealing.

Jz changes the words a little - and yes doesn't a "wicked" Dom sound tempting if they are also good???!!!!

I think I may sometimes try to be a good man with a wicked mind!

Perhaps as Heather says - it is all to do with balance. I can have some sympathy with that idea and she too talks of the importance of safety.

I love though nancy saying that she can tell when the evil sadist is coming because of the change in the colour of his eyes! I wonder what colour my eyes become when the evil peeps out! But I think too that nancy only likes the evil because she knows of his underlying nurturing self.

So yes, as Southern Sir says, it is down to trust that no real harm will be done.

littleOne admits to becoming more turned on by the perception of evil rather than being treated kindly. Though again looks for the reassurance of humanity beneath it.

So in the end the evil Dom seems to win out, as long as there is some kindness lurking; as opposed to the kind Dom who has some evil lurking!

Perhaps "evil" is the wrong word - Alice has quoted the dictionary definition that perhaps few would truly seek. It may be that, as Jz suggested, there may instead be a desire for some playful "wickedness".

I wrote once before on here about the image of the more cruel man who gets the girl. I will hunt out the links. It is not just in D/s. Despite most women's search for a nurturing partner there seems also to be a desire for a sense of danger.

I wonder where that comes from?

Also this discussion (as most on here) has been very Male/female as well as D/s. I wonder if there are variants with dominants and submissives of either sex in different combinations?

Thank you all for your contributions so far.

P xx

Alice said...

I'm going to steal a phrase from JZ and say that perhaps deliciously wicked would be a good way to describe this "evil" Dom we all seem to like so much.

Shadow said...

IT does have a lot to do with perception.Taht little hint of danger laying beneath the surface just waiting to pounce.

Like littleOne said, there is always going to be that person beneath it all, and to be a successful dominant (or successful in any relationship in general)there still has to be that not so much nurturing or kind, but protective and caring.

Evil (in this regard) is about fun and amusement..with that sharpness along the edge of the personality.

An old saying that I like to use in this regard is "If you break your toys you don't get to play with them again".

No one gets by on simple cruelty for very long. And a hard edge and tint of evil does not remove the need (or drive for that matter) to protect and maintain the health, safety and well being of a submissive under your care.

Even Wvil Overlords like me need to ensure the needs of the lovely ones beneath them are met..and occassionally we can take care of a want here and there too

Pygar said...

Yes Alice - I think we are coming to a consensus that many (most?) subs are searching for Doms who in Jz's words have "deliciously wicked minds".

Even the sinisterly evil Shadow has come out to reveal his "protective and caring" instincts and his ability to meet the needs and even wants of his subs. I think he's just a big softie too really just like me!


*hides wicked glint from my eye while trying to look innocent*

P xx

DanesWood said...

I suspect that some confuse evil with strict.
There's nothing wrong with a little sadism either at times and I also think that some equate evil with sadistic and strict.
I see people with profiles declaring their interest in some rather extreme ideas of BDSM and it seems submissives are drawn more towards them than Dominants who appear to be softer, more caring and loving, perhaps some have a perception this can mean they're weak, which is often far from the case.
I imagine that's why so many have a need to declare themselves as strict, demanding and extreme, looking to use and abuse the meat they own.
As someone who is at times Domme and at others submissive, I enjoy that wicked twinkle I get in my eye, as I enjoy seeing it in the eyes of my Dom.
I'd never submit to someone for whom that was the core of their domination though, give me a firm but loving pair of hands any day of the week.

Pygar said...

Welcome Daneswood.

I think you may be right that some confuse evil with strictness and sadism. Though sadism itself in certain connotations could be described as evil.

It is interesting that you have seen submissives drawn towards Doms with stricter profiles and also that you think that might persuade Doms to present themselves as more strict.

Like Jz and others here have come to agree I can see you also delight in a wicked gleam in the eye - sometimes your own ... !

So yes, perhaps a firm but loving pair of hands. I can agree with that.

P xx

Anonymous said...

I am in a religiously-based submissive-dominant relationship, rather than a BDSM one. I definitely feel that my husband better commands my respect when he is firm and sometimes cruel. As I've frequently been reminded I can be unruly and sometimes disobedient, so I need to be afraid of him in order to obey sometimes. I don't see him as evil, I see him as doing the job G-d set out for him to do which is to dominate me and be the Head of our family. It makes me feel safe to know he will not let me get away with anything, though at times it can be terrifying to know he can do absolutely anything he wants to me whenever he wants to. He is not my master so that he can meet my needs, he is my master so I can meet his. He does not often care for whether or not I enjoy it. To be frank, I am there for him as a toy and a receptacle, and when I am lucky I get a brief glimpse of some tenderness. Ultimately, however, even if some peopel can't understand how a relationship such as ours can be positive, it works beautifully. We have 9 lovely children who are obedient and smart and wonderful, and a strong and happy marriage.

Pygar said...

Thank you Dina so very much for describing the nature of your D/s relationship with your husband. It was fascinating to read.

However forgive me if I admit that I have many reservations about what you describe. To my mind there are contradictions in what you write but I do not want to write here in a way that might imply personal criticism. If you want to discuss it further please email me.

- P

Anonymous said...

Dina -
I did find your posting fascinating. That is until I read that you used Judaism to justify submission, sexual and otherwise as your rationale. Now, if it works, or you find it hot, go for it. But, if you believe Judaic texts support this, you are seriously mistaken.

I live one subway stop away from the largest Orthodox community in the country. Several of my clients are there and I asked them about this (without quoting you of course). Physical or mental abuse, while it does happen it all groups unfortunately, is not only forbidden, there are very specific instructions of caring for each other.

While the Talmud does describe a husband's rule over her husband: at no time does it mention submission, punishments (physical or mental) and certainly not beatings.

I have friends that engage in what you describe and love it. It's called BDSM and that's great - go for it. But to use Judaic law as the Aegis of what seems to be abuse, is something I have to counter.

While I am no Talmudic scholar, the person I asked this question was quite explicit. I did leave out some of the details that I felt uncomfortable going into with someone who is quite vanilla, but i can guarantee he would not consider Judaism as a women being a sexual orifice for her husband.

I am glad this works for you. But, what you describe, if religious based, is more a cult than anything you went through. And I am sorry you did go through it. No child of 10 or 20 should be forced to marry. That is abuse and abuse is not Judaism.