Monday, 27 July 2009

same sex sex

Why is it that many of the most beautiful women on BDSM contact websites all seem to be lesbians? It's not fair!!! If there is such a thing as incarnation then next time round I think I want to be a lesbian. No worries then about whether that erection is going to fail at just the wrong moment! See - even we Doms have our moments of insecurity and self doubt.

Though of course I too would then need to be a very beautiful lesbian to hope to compete with those whose pictures I have seen on the contact websites!

Although I think of myself as being quite adventurous sexually I am though turned off by the notion of male/male encounters. I have more than once had a threesome with two females - and find two women together very arousing. I was once at a group scene where there were just two women and many men but the contact between the men was very limited. So my experience of sex with another man is almost non existent and even the thought of it makes me shudder a little!

However ...

A little while ago I had a scene with a very attractive woman. We did not have full penetrative sex but there was a lot of intimate contact as well as BDSM fun. We'd spent some time together during the day before our intimate time and had lunch, drove around together and chatted about all sorts. We'd shared lots of emails over a period of time. There must have been lots and lots of clues but I didn't pick up on any of them.

It was only later that evening at home that I came to realise that she was a post-op transsexual. It was obvious really. I don't know how I could have missed it. When I realised I felt quite queasy for a while. Some very strange sensations went through me that I feel partly ashamed of. It was my innate prejudices about having sex with a man coming through in a very physical way.

But she wasn't a man. To all intents and purposes she was a fully functional woman. A beautiful woman. But ...

Although I am happy to remain a friend I could not bring myself to be intimate with her again.

It is a failing in me perhaps - something that I should try to get over. If I could come to enjoy sex with men as well as women ... well then that's twice as much fun I suppose. But I'm afraid the thought still makes me shudder.

Another friend has said to me that the transsexual woman should have been open with me about the fact. Part of me agrees (the part that still winces slightly as I recollect my time with her) but part of me thinks that she is proud now to be a woman and should make no apologies for her past male life. I wonder what others think.


cutesypah said...

as a bisexual female, you'd think I'd have no problems on BDSM contact sites finding women to play with. but, just like most men don't like interactions with men, most lesbians don't like interaction with bisexual women. it's all or nothing in their minds. *sigh* I respect it, but I don't have to like it. *smiles*

Proud Maisie said...

Firstly, I should say that a lot of "lesbians" on the internet are really clammy guys beating themselves off over their keyboard.
In the UK, at least, the gay BDSM scene keeps itself very separate from the hetero/bi scene. But within that there are still more women who are willing to do stuff with members of their own sex, for whatever reason.
As for transgendered people, it is a subject quite close to my heart, since I used to go to a lot of t-girl clubs, and my last partner had gender dysphoria, and felt that a substantial part of him was female.
He always lamented the fact that, if he were to ever get surgery and become a woman, he would never be a woman, he would simply be a post-op transexual, or a man who has had surgery. I used to to tell him that there are many kinds of women! Lesbian women, (stereotypically) feminine women, (stereotypically) masculine women, and transgendered women. *All* women.
I completely understand the issues you had. And I do not think that you should beat yourself up. If anything, the fact that the workings of your mind are causing you so much discomfort should make you feel better! Society conditions us all, and sometimes, we don't have as much control over our reactions because of this.
I do not think that a transgendered person who has had the surgical transformation is obliged to tell anyone. They are a woman (or man). So much of our identity is validated through how others perceive us. I know that if I was in that position, and each time I met a guy, I'd have to tell them that "I used to be a man", well, it'd kill me.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry that people are getting so hung up on the sex of the person at all, never mind their sexuality. To me it is the person that is important, not what they are or look like. My Lady and I are both hetro women outside the Chamber.

I think it's a shame that performance should have to depend on the sex of the Dom or sub. For me BDSM makes my sex irrelevant.

Lady Xanax said...

My reply comes in two parts as Pygar's post deals with two different issues. First same sex - I am a Domme with a female sub. We are both hetero women but I know I have bisexual tendancies. I don't consider myself lesbian in any shape or form. But as Cutesypah has already said, finding information let alone, other similar D/s couples to communicate with is nigh on impossible. My sub P has admitted it is the first time she has found herself attracted to another person of her own sex so is on her own little adventure. I hope that at some point I will also have my own male sub but it certainly won't stop me having other female subs if they are happy for me to be their dominant. So you could say I can have the best of both worlds.

Pygar touches on the very sensitive subject of transgender. I know a lot of hetero men who would run a mile if they realised a woman they were seeing was transgender. It's something that they can't get their head round. The very meaning of transgender is that they should be honoured and respected in the gender they choose to be. Primarily the gender they should have been born with, not what a random act of biology decided to give them by mistake. After all in the womb aren't we all the same sex until the chromosones make that decision for us? Sometimes they get it wrong. The past is the past and should be left there. But I understand how many men feel uncomfortable with the whole transgender issue.

I would have no problem engaging with a man or woman as my sub, transgender or not. What's important is who the person is now and that they are happy.

Cutesypah, if you want to chat, I would welcome your online contact!

Yours Lady Xanax

Jz said...

I've always admired those of you who can see past the wrapper to appreciate the inner person. That openness is humbling. But I think many of our reactions are hard-wired. There are some things that just plain kill lust. Body odor. Nose hair. Re-designed genitalia. Whatever. Certain things set off an inner trigger. For many people, gender is one of those things. Saying, "I shouldn't feel this way" doesn't erase the feeling, it just adds guilt into the mix.

Pygar, I think it's great that you wish you could rise above your reaction. It shows that your mind is truly open. But I agree with Proud Maisie, you shouldn't beat yourself up. Some things just are.

I also feel your friend was off-base to say that the transsexual *should* have told you. Can you imagine how much bravery and pain that would require on her part, and for no other reason than to save you some discomfort? It's her decision when to tell what. There's no obligation to Reveal All in a casual relationship. Not with the stuff that won't hurt anyone, anyhow.

selkie said...

This was interesting - and honest.

I've never had many hangups about gender or sexual orientation nor has D. I think a lot of that is growing up in the 70s in Montreal, which even then was fairly bohemian and open to variations. I never experienced a whole lot of guys with hangups about other guys - a simple not into it when approached and most of the hetro guys I knew were totally ok with it.

I think as Canadians generally, we tend to view sexual choices as a personal thing and while it may not blow that person's horn, they have no issue with someone's else following their hearts.

and absoultely NOT - I do not think she had any cause to tell you. Why woudl she? She IS female.

selkie said...

and incidentally don't want to sound sanctimonious - its hard to shake bred in the bone prejudices - we ALL have them of one sort or another - its to your credit that your awareness is such that at least you work against it.

Unknown said...

As a very hetero woman, I can identify with how you felt. About 20 years ago, I began being around a lot of gay & lesbian individuals. During that time, several of the women came on to me, thinking that because I was in that community a lot, I must be lesbian myself. I politely said, "No, thanks".

Since that time, however, as I've been around some others in that community, in a totally different state, I've found myself wondering.....

With me, the difference has been 1) just more life experience with both gay & lesbians as people; and 2) becoming more accepting of people in general. It seems the older I get, the less hard the wiring gets!

I always appreciate the thoughtfulness of what you write.


Cala Gray said...

Wow, that is a tough one. On one hand she is a fully functioning woman now and shouldn't have to apologize for her previous life. Though on another hand it seems like people should have a choice if they choose to be open minded about the situation.

I'm not sure which way I would prefer. Great piece, very thought provoking!

Pygar said...

Thank you all for your comments - what a fascinating discussion.

Thank you too to those who were kind to me about my dilemma!

It is interesting that another prejudice has been raised - that some of the lesbian community are unhappy with interaction with bisexual women. Like Maisie though I have sometimes wondered if some of the "beautiful women" on the contact sites are really men!


Tristan said...

Always there with your fascinating can of worms, eh?

I have no urge to have a man in my bed but it doesn't stop me from having the odd fantasy about a male sub. I think I'd find it very easy to humiliate male sub, and would no doubt really enjoy myself. Sort of a way to "get back" at all the bullies I've met over my life, maybe? (I'm not above being vindictive)

As for what I'd do if I discovered a she used to be a he...I'd have the same reaction as Pygar, honestly, in that case it would be best not to know.

I also agree she had no requirement to tell, ever.

Being from a town with a huge Gay/Bi/TG community, however, I like to think I may be a bit more open to the idea that a changed sex is not a way of hiding a male under a female skin. I can accept that she's a she even if she didn't start off that way but I'd still have an issue with my own reaction. I'd love to say I wouldn't but I can't.

As for on-line posers, well that seems sad to me. But at least with technology they can live out the fantasy safely hidden from the reality of having to face it publicly. There's still a lot of pressure in some circles for them to stay in the closet, as we can see even here.

Again, it's best not to look too deeply and just enjoy the experience for it's face value. Just don't tell me things that are not important to the moment.

Christina said...

For the life of me, I cannot understand why a heterosexual man would want sex with a transexual. In reality they are still a 'man'; Our lord created them as such!

Im not critizing you, Pygar, as you didn't know but Ive heard stories where the heterosexual man was quite aware. This leads me to think that they are Bi-sexual even though they profess alot that they are not!

selkie said...

wow. my blood pressure just rose. grins - I'll rant on my own blog though - just a note - the "lord" created them exactly as they were - you're right - which is women trapped in a man's body and vice versa. Thank god for modern medicine which is able to correct his mistkaes!

Tristan said...

Well christine, "Our Lord", huh? hmmm...must have missed the meeting on that. Dangerous ground, I fear, and probably not the right forum.


Sexuality can't be explained well but I'm pretty sure that the he that was was pretty sure he was a she or why go through all the pain and ...other stuff...that turned him into a female? Hormones, genitals, social adjustments, everything.

I agree it's not likely I can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, or a monkey into a horse (yet). But the she that

Actually, from your perspective, your lord also made that possible, if you think it through. Unless science doesn't fall under his control. I'm really not familiar with your lord's limitations.

Dragonfly said...

If being male and or female were only that simple.. ;)

It's not. truly.

I think Selkie's post sums up much of what I think about this topic ( and it is worth the read.

On a personal note, I have worked with many individuals who fall between the genders of male and female. It's not an easy place to be, and this is an understatement.

Dearest Pygar, one thing that I have admired about you for so many years, is that you have a wonderful ability to connect to people with your heart.

This situation is no different. You made the decision to meet with this person because you saw something that appealed to you in their heart... and most likely it was their beautiful expression of femininity .. which is the truth of this person, even if the body they were born in betrays them.

I understand your feelings as well. Situations like this make us reevaluate ourselves don't they?


Christina said...

Im Catholic, I guess I should have prefaced that!!!!
I watched a documentary about women and men who don't like their sex anymore and want to become the opposite. And some 20 yrs after they've had all the surgeries etc., switched back to the way they were born. Perhaps they didn't go for the right counseling!

Anonymous said...

Catholic or not - Pompous is the word I would use to describe that statement. My view is for women trapped in a man's body and vice versa is and should be viewed as a birth defect. The little x and y chromasones performing incorrectly and causing a defect. Should have had an "innie" and got an "outie". There is a whole realm of unpleasant maladies that can be inflicted upon a newborn by malforming chromosones. Why on earth would genatalia be exempt??


Rose said...

" And some 20 yrs after they've had all the surgeries etc., switched back to the way they were born. Perhaps they didn't go for the right counseling!"

And for every person mentioned in that documentary, rest assured that there was another who NEVER switched back to the way they were born. For anyone, Catholic or otherwise, to presume that they know better than the person in question what their sex/gender should be, is incredibly pretentious. And frankly, it's both misguided and incorrect as well.